za_skydiver 0 #26 October 13, 2006 QuoteYou're expecting wrong. ...A canopy is not a fix for improper piloting. ...they will all swoop and swoop well. They also require good technique to swoop well. Otherwise you'll fight the canopy the entire way to the ground. I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to let you know that there is no magic genie in the bottle. You can not make up for technique fully with a canopy choice. You still have to learn how to fly correctly and fly in a manner that makes *that* canopy perform... My canopy coach said the same thing about canopies when i wanted to get a xf2 139 that i saw second hand. He said swooping is about learning the aerodynamics of a canopy first, and i would be surprised how much i can get out of my Sabre 135.Some dream of flying, i live the dream... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #27 October 13, 2006 I spent a lot of time swooping on a sabre2 170, its not the wing its tthe pilot... the sabre 2 allowed me to learn how to ease out the fronts instead of dropping them, learn accuracy concepts in swooping and not fuck up my back smacking into the raft during the raft round of the swoop meet... so try the same size...I love my Xfire2 I think it is a good move, but I tried the same size first....and then downsized... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
za_skydiver 0 #28 October 13, 2006 QuoteI spent a lot of time swooping on a sabre2 170, its not the wing its tthe pilot... Agreed, i have a Sabre 1 though, which has a shorter recovery arc than the Sabre2. Quotethe sabre 2 allowed me to learn how to ease out the fronts instead of dropping them, learn accuracy concepts in swooping and not fuck up my back smacking into the raft during the raft round of the swoop meet... Thats pretty much why my canopy coach said i should stay on my Sabre1 135 for now. Quoteso try the same size...I love my Xfire2 I think it is a good move, but I tried the same size first....and then downsized... That was my theory too, but if i dont listen to my coach, he wont be my coach anymore... added: he is the only canopy coach on my dz Some dream of flying, i live the dream... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amir1967 0 #29 October 14, 2006 QuoteI spent a lot of time swooping on a sabre2 170, its not the wing its tthe pilot... so try the same size...I love my Xfire2 I think it is a good move, but I tried the same size first....and then downsized... Dave 3 years 800 jump and on FX 99 (start with Sabre2 170) you couldn't spant alot of time on the Sabre2.. Amir but then I went after 25 jump on a Manta 288 to Sabre 190 15 jump to Vengeance 170 (1.4) wasn't very smart eitherAM67 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjc 0 #30 October 14, 2006 I know of course that you are all right, it is the Pilot not the canopy - but the Pilot (canopy) has a significantly quicker recovery arc than the sabre 1 & 2. I can get reasonable swoops from it for my experience level, but I find holding double fronts as I come out of the turn loses speed (which I have to do unless I turn uncomfortably low) whereas on other canopies where the wing can maintain a natural shape there is a degree of acceleration still available. When I turn the Pilot a bit lower and get it right so it planes out by itself just above ground it gives some nice swoops, but theres not much difference (IP height wise) from there to deep in the corner. I would like something that will maintain a descent for a while longer. The Sabre 135 does sounds like a good option, but - I can't see any advantage in going down that route rather that the x-fire 139 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #31 October 14, 2006 I do agree with you. Pilot is perfect for everything but swooping(at least in lower WL, e.g. <1.5). I switched to Cobalt for that reason. It opens nice and flies so sweet. I have compared my Pilot150 and Cobalt 135. They seems to have the same wingspan, of course Cobalt has a more radical shape. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #32 October 14, 2006 the fx 99 is used rarealy actually I can swoop the 119 crossfire2 further than it, the FX was a gift from my S&TA and I will hold onto it for certain aspects My main canopy is the 119 Crossfire2 Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #33 October 14, 2006 I would say try to get the canopy more vertical that thing will dive like a crack whore in a sheetrock factory...I flew a pilot 150 and it is about how you fly it Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #34 October 14, 2006 you should also do what you feel that you can do after a good self assesment. you are the pilot. lots of people went smaller and more aggresive than others and handled it fine. they are usually people that really understood what they were doing, got continuous coaching, and put real effort into it. if you feel your flying style could benefit from both a downsize and platform change to gain benefits in two different ares then do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #35 October 14, 2006 Quote I would say try to get the canopy more vertical that thing will dive like a crack whore in a sheetrock factory...I flew a pilot 150 and it is about how you fly it Are you telling me that you have learnt swooping on a Pilot150? What is the reason to fight with a canopy and doing something if that is not designed for that? It has a short and positive recovery arc. Is that the thing you want to have if you want to learn how to swoop? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #36 October 15, 2006 Check your PM's dude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #37 October 15, 2006 dude they can be swooped is what I am saying....shit the crossfire2 will have a positive recovery arc if flown wrong (too much rears input on plane out) I learnt how not to swoop on a pilot 150 by bouncing myself off the ground and gaining 10 inches of titanium in my leg Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #38 October 15, 2006 Quoteshit the crossfire2 will have a positive recovery arc if flown wrong (too much rears input on plane out) My experience is that (my) Pilot150 is planing out by itself without any rear input if I release the fronts gently. QuoteI learnt how not to swoop on a pilot 150 by bouncing myself off the ground and gaining 10 inches of titanium in my leg I'm sorry to hear that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #39 October 15, 2006 Whats wrong with swooping a pilot. I learnt to swoop under a chute shop zp150 again a canopy with a short recovery arc. And for the record i've personally seen guys under spectres out performing guys jumping velos just proves a shit pilot will always be a shit pilot even with the "ultimate" tools and a good pilot wont give a shit..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #40 October 15, 2006 There is positively nothing wrong with swooping a Pilot (or Sabre2, or Safire, etc, etc, etc...) Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #41 October 15, 2006 ahhh thank you for backing me up on that one chuck...mayb e we should do a semi elliptical swoop meet so that people will understand that you can swoop them... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #42 October 15, 2006 Exactly..did i say there was.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #43 October 15, 2006 Quote ahhh thank you for backing me up on that one chuck...mayb e we should do a semi elliptical swoop meet so that people will understand that you can swoop them... I think it was about the short recovery arc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #44 October 15, 2006 QuoteQuote ahhh thank you for backing me up on that one chuck...mayb e we should do a semi elliptical swoop meet so that people will understand that you can swoop them... I think it was about the short recovery arc. ahhh it may be a little shorter but it is not as short as a stilletto :-P And people can get those to swoop pretty well :-P Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
