diablopilot 2 #51 February 2, 2006 QuoteThe fact is that if your doing Tandems and its getting to be just another jump, IT IS STILL THE FIRST JUMP and possibly the most exciting thing the student has ever done. Give them a break and play it safe. Dont break them!!!! After doing more than a few tandems (read: several hundered) a good TI will probably find they can land their students more comfortably (read: safely) by generating a little speed prior to the flare. Whether they do this throught the brake/surge technique, or a toggle turn, it's still safe if they are experience in the technique.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tspillers 0 #52 February 2, 2006 Reading through all of this I will finally chime in. As a Tandem IE (and course director) with 1200+ tandems. I do think there is an advantage to a LITTLE added speed. Wtih proper technique it is easy on newer systems (harnesses out for 8 or so years now) to keep the students feet much higher than the instructors on landing. I don't see anything wrong with an experienced Tandem Instructor doing a gentle turn (90 or less). to add speed. I am not talking about a whip turn. I personally prefer the breake/surge technique but choose a turn larger than 90 in very high winds from time to time. There is no rule against how you land the tandem, but some comon sense should apply. I know good instructors that do agressive turns on tandem landing very well. I don't like it, but they are very good at it. Just like watching great swoopers, the biggest problem seems to be the less experienced jumper see how easy it looks and thinking they can handle it (and do a few times). My 1 cent (not worth 2) Todd I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #53 February 2, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe fact is that if your doing Tandems and its getting to be just another jump, IT IS STILL THE FIRST JUMP and possibly the most exciting thing the student has ever done. Give them a break and play it safe. Dont break them!!!! After doing more than a few tandems (read: several hundered) a good TI will probably find they can land their students more comfortably (read: safely) by generating a little speed prior to the flare. Whether they do this throught the brake/surge technique, or a toggle turn, it's still safe if they are experience in the technique. is the brake/surge technique at odds with what Brian Germain recommends in his latest article? rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #54 February 3, 2006 I don't know, I haven't read it.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivepeaks 0 #55 February 8, 2006 QuoteLook how well trained his student is. She's on rears too..... the student isn't on risers, she is just holding on to webbing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #56 February 8, 2006 Really? I hadn't noticed. So where do those hook thingies on her harness go. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivepeaks 0 #57 February 8, 2006 QuoteReally? I hadn't noticed. So where do those hook thingies on her harness go. to the three rings, maybe it puts some input on front risers, but i don't think that she is helping with the rears. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #58 February 12, 2006 in reply to " Just one general point not aimed at anbody, but does a tandem student need to be hooked in? " .................. This is like asking if ordinary (not tandem ) canopies need to be hooked in to get a decent landing. The answer is NO they don't. Hooking a tandem in in most conditions is not necessary. Brake /surge landings are similarly not necesary. Sure a bit of extra speed can sometimes help but is it necessary ????? For some reason these things become a bit of a status symbol for some and a danger to others. I agree that the passenger should not be put at any unecessary risk. What concerns me more about the admittedly great shot (nice snap ! ) is the position of the passengers legs ie stuck staight out and rigid. Sure all things being well the landing will be uneventful and injury free. However just as in a butt slide landing there is little room for error . If this passengers legs touched down first and there was still forward motion then some injury could easily result as the shock is transmitted straight up th rigid legs. Basic landing principles ...be prepared for a PLF if required.. this applies to tandem skydiving as well as ordinary skydiving. Those that forget the basics may have to be reminded the hard way. If you have a passenger in your care then you should be thinking of their safety as well as your own ....even if you are swoop happy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #59 February 19, 2006 Hooking a tandem in in most conditions is not necessary (quote) There is no reason to ever need to hook a tandem, other then to avoid a midair with another, but seeing how tandems are last to land, pretty slim chances. the passenger should not be put at any unecessary risk(quote) Any Tm's who do a hookturn with a tandem passenger (other then an experianced jumper as passenger) is putting the passenger in unecessary risk for no good reason what so ever and should have all their ratings yanked for good. Those that forget the basics may have to be reminded the hard way. (quote) Even the best in the world have been broken and or dead because it caught up to them or they "missed it by that much" If you have a passenger in your care then you should be thinking of their safety as well as your own ....even if you are swoop happy. (quote) AMEN. Save the swooping for your own risk factor, you don't have a right to endanger the well being or life of another, even more so when the person has no clue the danger you are putting them in by being an asshat for your personal pleasure and thrill ! Again any instructor who would do so needs to have all their ratings pulled for good, for this action shows they have no regard for the proper care of student and are setting a bad example for the rest of the students and low timers at the dz. Got a guy around here that has been do so quite low and dispite complaning to the S&TA & DZO, both keep letting him do it. I'm waiting for the day to come (it will come one day) when we get to clean up a tandem passenger off the ground, you wait till the lawers get a hold a case like that, it is very easy to prove that hook turning a tandem is NOT an industry standard or exceptable and with number of video cameras that the familys bring with them, if it is on thier tape as well, your ass is done for, even if you got a signed waver. There are people out there who will "testify as an expert", even if they lose the case, who here has the deep pockets to fight, as a TM are you willing to risk it in civil court and spend a lot money and force your DZO to have to do the same, just to defend your right to swoop a tandem? If you answer yes, then your fucked in the head! ~ ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
