f1freak 0 #1 April 11, 2003 ok, so if you look on page 17, top left picture of Chris Irwin in the April issue of skydiving. am i seeing things or are his break lines NOT running through the ring on the risers..... Is this common? I guess it's the pre-second time i have seen this. any thoughts????? (really look at the line on his right side...)HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #2 April 11, 2003 I don't get the Magazine but are you saying it doesn't even go through the ring like on the risers used by this character?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1freak 0 #3 April 11, 2003 NO, i know what 3rd risers are, and i cant see any. now i dont know if the pic is just poor quality but i swear i can see the line running direct from the toggles..... i mean hes in his swoop, toggles chest high with NO distortion of the risers.....HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #4 April 11, 2003 That's just weird! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #5 April 11, 2003 If I recall correctly rigging65 has some removeable 3rd leg risers that would do essentually the same thing. (I think) We'll see when he reads this. Other wise it can be set up like a BASE riser.Since the slider is pulled down or removed, this could work.... I'll draw a picture and post in a few minutes.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1freak 0 #6 April 11, 2003 Yeah, thats what it looks like something like a base rig.... or maybe it's the third risers made from line..... and they just dont show up.... but damn his break line it perfectly straight no distortion at all.....HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #7 April 11, 2003 OK I suck at this drawing... Perhaps I'll try again later...(probably not) There is a locking loop just above the ring. To set the brakes, The cats eye on the brake line will go over the loop. The loop will go through the guide ring on the riser which in turn is set by the toggle. The line does not have to pass through the guide ring that way. You must pull the slider down and then release the brakes.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #8 April 11, 2003 Some trips are attached to a piece of suspension line, therefore you can barely see them. Trips are still cool, believe it or not. Unless you are the reark-riser master, you can totally still get more distance out of trips. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #9 April 11, 2003 QuoteIf I recall correctly rigging65 has some removeable 3rd leg risers that would do essentually the same thing. (I think) We'll see when he reads this. Other wise it can be set up like a BASE riser.Since the slider is pulled down or removed, this could work.... I'll draw a picture and post in a few minutes. The third-legs I have are removable in the sense that they can be converted between standard risers and Trips...I suppose you could set them up like BASE risers (ie- totally free break lines) but I think this would be a mistake. Properly designed third-legs will allow the break line to essentially 'float' freely without restraint from the risers in any way. As has been said, they can be built using suspension line for the third-leg, and you might not pick that up in a pic (I haven't seen the page 17 pic). I couldn't see a reason to leave your breaks totally detached on an HP main...if you dropped a toggle, you'd be forced to land on rear risers as it would fly away on you (like "fly away" toggles on a BASE setup). Which brings up another point. The only reason BASE toggles/break lines are designed the way they are is to allow you to clear a line over caused by the break line (longest line, most common to get a line-over with). Of course, after clearing the line over, you're now forced to land on rear riser...which isn't such a big deal on a 280 sq. ft. canopy (ok, unless you're trying to put it into a back yard or something). Without seeing it, I'd bet that the Trips the guy is using has suspension line as the third-leg and it just didn't show up in the pic. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #10 April 11, 2003 Any chance you can scan the picture? The part abput no line deflection is the part that grabs me. In the picture I posted there is still line deflection but the hands are pretty far out to the sides. How about on the pictre in the Magazine?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #11 April 11, 2003 Ok, looking at the picture, I can see lines, probably Spectra, use for 3rd risers. On his right, the line goes from just above the "R" in Red, up slightly to just below the top of his helmet. On his left, the line goes Where the slider gormmets are on the risers, to about 4inches above the toggle, th eline is pointed at the "R" in Red. Looks like if he extended his arms anymore, then the lines would have a bend in them. Definately line 3rd risers though. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoshi 0 #12 April 11, 2003 did you post pix?? if so I must be stupid becasue I dont see any attachments... ahh well -yoshi_________________________________________ this space for rent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #13 April 11, 2003 Nope, just looked at the pic in the magazine. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BluDvn222 0 #14 April 11, 2003 So, "fly-away" toggles don't make a line over any more likely? "How do you like my groin to your foot style?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #15 April 11, 2003 Love your Greenies, they're so handy to have around. Here's the picture: She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #16 April 11, 2003 QuoteSo, "fly-away" toggles don't make a line over any more likely? No, they don't. "Fly-away" toggles act exactly the same as any other toggle set up until you unstow them. Once you pop them loose, they are no longer attached to the risers, so if you let go of them, they simply "fly-away" and trail behind you. The idea being that if youline over a steering line, you pop your breaks and let them go, thus clearing the line over and letting you land the canopy on risers.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #17 April 14, 2003 >?So, "fly-away" toggles don't make a line over any more likely? Well, they do make mals more likely. If the brake line is routed through the slider, a premature brake release on free toggles will likely cause a mal by flying up and getting stuck above the riser. Note that, on a very high wing loading this isn't anything 'new' since you can't recover from a premature brake release anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #18 April 15, 2003 Quote >?So, "fly-away" toggles don't make a line over any more likely? Well, they do make mals more likely. If the brake line is routed through the slider, a premature brake release on free toggles will likely cause a mal by flying up and getting stuck above the riser. Note that, on a very high wing loading this isn't anything 'new' since you can't recover from a premature brake release anyway That's a pretty big generalization. On a large canopy, a premature break toggle release may try to take the slider back up the lines (which is what I assume you mean by a "mal" seeing as how losing a break toggle is not a mal - the canopy is still functioning properly), but I don't think it's going to have much success. Considering the span and cord of a given BASE canopy (since you mostly see fly-away toggles in BASE) I have doubts that the drag created from a dacron line in 20+/- mph of wind is going to take a slider back up lines that are under tension and at extension. Now, I may give you that if the break fired during slider-up deployment (while the slider was still against the canopy stops) that you might have a problem...but how often does that happen? If the slider has already come down and knocked the break loose, it's going to be a few feet above your head, you can pump it back down with a rear riser flare. Of course, if you're jumping slider down or off, all of this is irrelevant.I'm not aware of anyone that jumps an HP with fly-away toggles on every jump...I couldn't see why you would...but that's a whole other story. Surely you could create a mal on a highly wingloaded pocket-rocket with this scenario...but then, just about anything that goes wrong on one of those is a termianl failing! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #19 April 15, 2003 What do you consider a really high wing-loading? On my Vx-70 which was loaded at 3.1 out of 450 jumps I recovered from a premature brake release at least 3 times. On the other hand on my 62 I had one brake release that created a totally hopeless situation in terms of recovery.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
