Flaring on a Skymaster

[Casch 0]

Yeah yeah I'm still on student gear, anyway last weekend I tried rear riser maneuvers. And when I did a RR flare, it felt SOO different from a normal flare because I think I actually stalled the canopy. I have never been able to stall the canopy on a landing flare with toggles and consequently I think that is what is partially at fault for my innability to land on my feet. Question is should I find a rig with better control range? Or maybe I should try a rear riser flare on an actual landing to see the difference first?

[Sonic 0]

I wouldn't try a rear riser flare (actual landing) until you can stand up using the toggles. You can stall a canopy at a higher airspeed using the risers becuase you are adjusting the angle of incidence and angle of attack of the canopy.

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It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

[AggieDave 6]

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Or maybe I should try a rear riser flare on an actual landing to see the difference first?

No.

Rear Riser flares are to be used if a) you broke a steering line or b) you're good swooper looking for that extra 50ft of swoop.

I promise that at your experience level you'll either do it too high or too late and you'll more then likely get hurt.

Talk to your JM about your canopy flaring problems, have him video tape a landing. You're probably just not finishing out the flare correctly and with it on tape you can review it, be debriefed and learn.

Good luck.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Casch 0]

Thanks, I definately need to start getting more video anyways

[wlie 0]

Don't feel bad about still being on student gear. Everyone is the sport started in them.

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Or maybe I should try a rear riser flare on an actual landing to see the difference first?

No. Absolutely don't! If you want to experiment, do it up high and in clear traffic. I encourage you to do that so you can feel the "stall" point in an emergency. By that, I mean say... you lose a steering line - it broke off or it slipped off your hand and you can't get it back.

But landing is not the time to experiment!

There's nothing wrong with practicing your flare (toggles) up high either. I still do that. It helps me ensure I have all the control ranges available, and help me judge the stall point because the winds might just be different.

My other ride is the relative wind.

[BMFin 0]

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I have never been able to stall the canopy on a landing flare with toggles and consequently

I belive usually student canopy brakelines are set so long that they wont stall too easilly...

[AggieDave 6]

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I belive usually student canopy brakelines are set so long that they wont stall too easilly...

The brakes on our (skydive Aggieland) student canopies are set to PD's standards (well, they are Navigators and Sabre2s) and although you can stall them, it is the canopy's nature to keep flying. You can do it, but it takes a good bit to get the Navigators to really stall (if you're jumping the recommended wingloading, not overloading it). Very nice for a student canopy, very nice.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[BMFin 0]

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Very nice for a student canopy, very nice.

yeah It is.

But I have one (maby stupid) question .. Why do the lines have to be so thick ? What is the benefit on having those dacron lines ? Why could they not be Vectran or Spectra ?

[AggieDave 6]

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Why do the lines have to be so thick ?

So students can safely do CReW...Ok, honestly, I don't know why it would matter one way or the other, except for maybe if students jumping the gear some how got into a canopy collision, but that chance is so rare that I don't think it would matter.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Casch 0]

Is it cheaper to go with the thick lines? Or do they stretch more?

[Scoby 0]

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Why do the lines have to be so thick ? What is the benefit on having those dacron lines ? Why could they not be Vectran or Spectra ?

Dacron lines absorb some of the opening shock, which is probably useful for students who may not always have the best body position at opening. Also, I understand that dacron holds up better to abuse and doesn't go out of trim, which are both desirable traits in heavily used student mains.

[PhreeZone 15]

Dacron stretches more on opening helping to have softer openings, in the sizes you are talking it wears forever before it breaks (900+ jumps before it really starts to look bad and more till it breaks). Its a proven material, Microline is a fairly recent line material and if the canopy is older some people were not trusting of microline and instisted on dacron since it was proven.

Idealy Dacron lined reserves will lead to slightly softer terminal openings since it has a greater stretch % and memory. Finding Dacron lined reserves takes some looking, the increased pack volume is something most people can't stand about dacron.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[bobsoutar 0]

Often brake lines are set a bit too long to stop students flaring too high, stalling their canopy out of the sky and injuring themselves.
Rear riser flares can be very dangerous and definately shouldn't be attempted for landing at your current level.
Try opening high and then wrapping the lines around a couple of fingers on each hand to practice some landing flares. Once you get to 2000' go back to handling the canopy with normal line length. Ask your instructor to watch you and advise you about actual landings.