lowpullin1 0 #1 November 14, 2002 hey just wondering, and i know that this will depend on what canopy you are jumping, but when is the wingloading so high that you have to hook to land it. "It's hard to fly with the eagles when you are surrounded by turkeys." My Website Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #2 November 14, 2002 You never have to hook a canopy to land it. I've seen canopies at above 2:1 landed straight in.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #3 November 14, 2002 If yuo have to hook it to land there is something wrong with the canopy. Like an old worn out F-111. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #4 November 14, 2002 cobalts have been landed straight in up to ~3.6#/' you should not have to hook a canopy to land it. sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #5 November 15, 2002 Sounds like you heard some crap. If you have to hook a canopy to land it...you're an idiot to fly it! Be safe and fly for a lifetime!"Slow down! You are too young to be moving that fast!" Old Man Crawfish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowpullin1 0 #6 November 15, 2002 that's cool. noboby told be that, i just assumed that when the wing loading got so high that you would need the extra speed to produce the extra lift from the smaller canopy in order to land it. thanks for the info. "It's hard to fly with the eagles when you are surrounded by turkeys." My Website Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 37 #7 November 15, 2002 True enough. I've landed my Cobalt 75 loaded at ~2.1 straight-in without front risers on more than one occasion just fine. W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHixxx 0 #8 November 15, 2002 I have a Xaos loaded at 2.15 that is easy to straight shoot with... -Hixxxdeath,as men call him, ends what they call men -but beauty is more now than dying’s when Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #9 November 15, 2002 Quote i just assumed that when the wing loading got so high that you would need the extra speed to produce the extra lift from the smaller canopy in order to land it. I think it was BillVon who brought this up earlier, it does make perfect sense. Think, how fast are you going when you finish your flare and put your feet on the ground? Answer: You're going slow, slower than you were on your straight in final. The turn will build up speed and that speed generally translates into greater distance on the swoop, that speed also shrinks significantly the margin for error so be careful. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichM 0 #10 November 15, 2002 Quote Quote i just assumed that when the wing loading got so high that you would need the extra speed to produce the extra lift from the smaller canopy in order to land it. I think it was BillVon who brought this up earlier, it does make perfect sense. Think, how fast are you going when you finish your flare and put your feet on the ground? Answer: You're going slow, slower than you were on your straight in final. Jim, please excuse me for clarifying but I didn't read your response in the way I'm sure you meant it . A hot canopy will have a straight flying speed faster than you can run, but they can be stood up on landing. So there will be a period at the end of the surf where the canopy has slowed below it's normal flying speed and is still slowing but is still flying. When this speed slows to running speed you can now "land", and most people will continue to fly their canopies until at least walking speed is achieved. The hook makes the approach faster and the surf longer, but what I've described still happens at the end of that longer surf. The upshot is that no canopy needs to be hooked to land it, the belief that they do is a fairly common misconception. You would have to run out a downwind landing on in moderate winds on any canopy, and this is often seen at swoop meets, but its a function of not landing into wind not of flying hot radical canopies. I hope that clears it and not just confuses it more.Rich M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hallur 0 #11 November 15, 2002 Ive landed my FX loaded 1.8 straight in and in little bit of brakes(you have to watch that stalling point) in a wind about 6 knots. I was cut off and needed to land in a very tight spot........ safe landings.....Hallur When I stop skydiving is the day that I die!!! Hallur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #12 November 15, 2002 Hey Rich, I probably didn't say that as clearly as I could have, so I've decided to dig up the original post. One thing you'll notice is that I was mistaken about the original poster, it was Alan, not BillVon. Anyhow - see below... Quote That's exactly my point: I use to have Sandy's problem (ie running out too fast on no wind days) because my flare wasn't quite right (The lines were not to long and I actually ended lenghtening them up) . Then I started to give the canopy a little bit extra lift and extra rigidity with a double front approach (following Chuck's advice on this) and discovered fairly quickly that this way, I could swoop allong untill the canopy complitely stops me. This experience has helped me to get a better feel of the canopy and I don't have to run out any kind of landing anymore. I don't say that HP landing is the ultimate goal and that everyone should aim for that, just that a little bit extra speed-rigidity-lift helps when the wind doesn't ------------------- Ummm, corect me if I'm wrong, but even when you induce the extra speed and lift, doesn't the canopy still have to slow down and cross the same speed/lift threshold that you have on a normal straight in approach with no extra or induced speed/lift? Wouldn't that mean that from that point on they would fly and land the same? So, wouldn't the extra speed just lenghten the surf *before* that threshold and have no real effect on the performance after it? Double fronts can teach you to surf longer and ease you in to faster, higher performance landings, but they don't teach you how to finish your landing. Learning the low speed performance characteristics of your canopy does that. You can/should do that up high. I guess, indirectly, the longer surf closer to the ground does contribute to learning slow flight, but it is a myth that induced speed will allow you to land better on a canopy that you *can't* land straight in. alan The point is, of course, that it isn't/shouldn't be necessary to hook any canopy or induce any additional speed to get a nice, soft, landing. The original thread is here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=214491;search_string=search_string;#214491 - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #13 November 16, 2002 Quotehey just wondering, and i know that this will depend on what canopy you are jumping, but when is the wingloading so high that you have to hook to land it. I don't think wingloading is as critical as shape of the wing, whether by design or trim. I've jumped an out of trim Stiletto at around 1.8:1 that required a hook in order to land it, simply because at straight in speeds, it wouldn't plane out. I've also jumped an FX at over 2.4:1 that was reasonably easy to plane out on a straight in approach (though not nearly as much fun as a hook)."I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #14 December 5, 2002 Crossfire2, 97 sq ft.. Loading is 1.9. I start my hook at 500 feet. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #15 December 5, 2002 Xaos 21 108 loading @ 1.8. I never "have" to hook. No problem straight in."Slow down! You are too young to be moving that fast!" Old Man Crawfish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unutsch 0 #16 December 5, 2002 Quotethat's cool. noboby told be that, i just assumed that when the wing loading got so high that you would need the extra speed to produce the extra lift from the smaller canopy in order to land it. thanks for the info. that's exactly what I thought, when I bought myself the Ace 100, but in 60 jumps with it, and by reading a lot of material, I realized it's not the canopy that can't fly, it was just my inexperience with it Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation: http://www.padliangeli.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #17 December 5, 2002 How is that thing treating you?? Did you get a chance to jump the Crossfire2 yet?? Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #18 December 5, 2002 Oh my god.....someone does listen. I am amazed, and I am pleased that you are experianced enough to know that.... I think I am gonna cry.Ron Canopy NAZI #3..... Look I got a number!!!! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unutsch 0 #19 December 14, 2002 man, you made me go a little bit , and at the same time proud of myself!!!!!!! thanks man, I needed that after a dance and drink throug night! Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation: http://www.padliangeli.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
