eames 0 #26 October 31, 2002 Well... not that my performance has any bearing on the quality of the canopy! But it's an awesome canopy.... Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roq 0 #27 October 31, 2002 In my opinion the problem is: small canopy = smal size + small weight = little inertia = easy rotation inside and out of the main bag same when inflate. The bag spin happen easily with small canopys and that is worsened by the inadequate packing process for the specifies canopy. The past good packing cannot be now. Tight rubber bands is good for canopys to 120 sq ft for example, but no for small canopys Stows with 3 " or 4" out of rubber bands was good but not for small canopys. In my opinion the small canopys need a little stows out of rubber bands and less squeeze of the ruber bands Low speed deployment worsens the spining problem Pack job is very important for attenuate or amount the problem, because if the canopy is placed to the relative wind in sluttish form or with the disorganized nose it can increase a initial small rotation of the bag and to transit quickly for some line twists. The bag usually rotates no more than a turn, the canopy when inflate makes the rest. Stows in board is good and will attenuate the problem Small pilot chute (19 " to 21 ") is good for high speed deployments but bad for low speed Some canopys worsens the problem while add jumps, another attenuate the problem. The body positions is very important the best is openning with the head a little lowers for the lines don't snag the corners of the container. sorry my bad ingles Roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eames 0 #28 October 31, 2002 I mostly agree with you, but I've trash-packed on 300 of the last 500 jumps with sub-100 sq.ft. canopies and they always open just as well as with a carefull pack job. Slider up, lines in the middle, tight lines stows (short, but tight), and excess line at the container end-- everything else is just a function of design, body position, and chance (IMO;). Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grumpy 9 #29 November 1, 2002 Have you tried psyco packing it? Does it fly straight while the brakes are stowed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #30 November 1, 2002 I tried psycho packing it but gave up after 2 cutaways in 20 jumps! It does fly straight with the brakes on. I wish you guys could see the video! I've tried to upload it onto this site but it doesn't work. If anybody wants to see it email me at [email protected] its a 1.8meg mpghttp://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #31 November 1, 2002 Thanks for that. Interesting that I never used to watch my stiletto and very rarely had twists - now I watch my xaos and get them a lot - maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me!!http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #32 November 1, 2002 Upload it to www.skydivingmovies.comYesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #33 November 1, 2002 Swoop, upload it to ftp.skydivingmovies.com or email to me at [email protected] and I'll do it for you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #34 November 1, 2002 Craig, why is there a folder with all your movies on that site? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichM 0 #35 November 2, 2002 QuoteI wish you guys could see the video! Uploaded to http://www.btinternet.com/~r.moulton/xaoschop.mpg with Garys permission. 1.8 Mb mpeg file. Gary - I see what you mean! It happens slower than I expected but the results are dramatic. I'll be interested in the dissection by those who know more than I.Rich M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #36 November 2, 2002 If you look at the video, frame by frame, you can see the risers are very un-even. Looks like the right risers (links) are 6 inches + below the left. Uneven links on a loaded elliptical = spinning line twists. Make sure your legstaps hardware isn't slipping or that your leg straps aren't moving. If it isn't your legstraps, I would focus on body postition and loading the harness evenly through deployment. Cool video. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roq 0 #37 November 2, 2002 I see the video Is not bag twist is canopy twist. Is canopy twist happen after inflate. I think that have any asymmetry in your body position or in harness when the canopy inflate. Like I can see, the canopy is very sensitive (twichy)... Roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #38 November 2, 2002 I take your point about body position and symmetry. However before I had this canopy I did 1400 jumps on my stiletto and never chopped and very rarely had line twists. Anyway its now academic as I've chopped it again today and our chief instructor has banned it from being used again at our airfield! What do you think my chances ar of getting my cash back from Precision!? (I'm now screwed with no canopy!)http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #39 November 2, 2002 the video does look like you are asymmetrical in the harness (the canopy seems quite sensitive too). it also looks like you did not do anything to correct the situation other than chop. this surprised me because i believe i read that you are a high experience elliptical jumper....? i.e. immediately straighten your risers so that the links are level. next/simultaneously, immediately kick to spin your body in the opposite direction to the twists. dont simply go for a ride, control your situation. reserves are there to save you but they are your last chance. exhaust your other chances first. sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #40 November 2, 2002 ohh and it looks like your brake setting is a little high. it is hard to tell from one piece of video but check the brake lines. <><>danDaniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #41 November 2, 2002 I was kicking as hard as I could! I'm losing a lot of height - the group broke off at 4000, my reserve is open at 1500http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #42 November 2, 2002 QuoteI was kicking as hard as I could! I'm losing a lot of height - the group broke off at 4000, my reserve is open at 1500 kicking w/ very un-even risers won't do any good. Harness shift so that the risers (the links make a good reference) are even. The spinning will stop, then it is easy to kick out. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #43 November 3, 2002 From your video it appeared the main stopped spinning before you cut away. If the canopy is not spinning further, why not Kick out of the line twists? If you're under reserve by 1500' agl I would think you had enough air to kick out of the line twists. Sucks that the S&TA banned your canopy. If Precision won't help you out I'll give you some US dollars for it.Ken "Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichM 0 #44 November 3, 2002 QuoteAnyway its now academic as I've chopped it again today and our chief instructor has banned it from being used again at our airfield! Ouch! I'll pm you.Rich M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #45 November 3, 2002 Have you seen where the horizon is at the point where the twists stop going in? I've already gone past the 4 way I was videoing and to quote them i was still going like 'shit off a shovel' I estimate that I've got 4 - 5 more complete revolutions until impact. What would you do?http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #46 November 3, 2002 Sorry Rich - i don't understand "i'll pm you" Lisa says hi!!http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #47 November 3, 2002 safety first, you did the right thing... with that said, just for disscusion: it looks like from the video and timing you were about 2200-2500' when you choped and the spin was just about sorted. for next time you did have a margin of safety to continue here. you were not 5 revolutions from impact. only mistake i can point out for next time is you did not straightening your links. it is possible that there is nothing wrong with the canopy, just that it is a more twitchy design than you are used to and havent adjusted yet. that said you do nothave to conquer a design that does not suit you, there are many to choose from. one will just feel right... sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parachutist 2 #48 November 4, 2002 Quote Uploaded to http://www.btinternet.com/~r.moulton/xaoschop.mpg with Garys permission. 1.8 Mb mpeg file. Gary, In this video it is apparent that the pilot of this canopy is watching the ground at first, then looking up to watch the canopy. For a brief flash the pilot's view passes over the horizon. He should have been watching the horizon throughout this entire opening sequence. All the way from the point of reaching for PC... watching the horizon provides a great indicator of correct / incorrect body position and allows the pilot to correct any errors. When you're looking up at your parachute you have no accurate way to tell just how level you are with the ground. you see lots of canopy and sky all around it. My 1 chop so far was about jump #300... it was my 3rd jump on a new canopy & it was elliptical (I spun it up). I was trying to blame it on the pack job at first... then a few months later I was down in Daytona FL jumping and I met the author of the Pack Like a Pro Video, and I asked him what could have been going on that caused my spinning mal. He told me it was not the pack job: spinning mals such as this could only be packing related if you packed a full line twist or two into the pack job. He basically told me it's all about body position and he gave me some great advice: Watch the horizon, not the ground. More info he gave me: The smaller the canopy, the more attention it will demand during opening. This has me wondering: What size was your Stiletto and what size is the Xaos? Chris Warnock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #49 November 4, 2002 Sounds like good advice - this is exactly what a very experienced velocity pilot told me after the cutaway. He also said not to try and correct the opening too much. just sort of go with it. Anyway I had to cutaway again on Saturday after doing all this and the canopy has now been grounded! I'm gutted! Thanks for replying anyway. Stiletto 135, Xaos 108http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 27 #50 November 4, 2002 Hey Swoop.... Remi here "I'll PM you" means Rich will send you a Private Message (look at the top of the page, there is a line saying "Edit Profile" "Messages".... if you get a message, you'll have a 1 in red showing before "Messages". Bummer about the grounding.... PS: I hate nicknames.. if it wasnt for Craig, I'd never guessed that was you.... Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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