Rear Riser Landings

[jfields 0]

I've been reading about people asking about downsizing and the responses from the knowledgeable canopy fliers (including the greenies like BillV). One of the criteria for downsizing has been the ability to land using rear risers. It would come into play if there were a problem with toggles or something, right?

I have no desire to downsize from my current canopy, but want to continue expanding my knowledge and options under my current canopy (Sabre 190). How would I safely go about learning how to land using just rear risers? I can use them up high to some extent, but it is very hard to judge the subtleties of timing a flair without the ground as a reference.

In general, what is the proper method for landing with rear risers? Do you just grab the rear risers and roughly approximate the same type of flair you'd do with toggles? I know how the Army instructed me to pull rear risers to land, but that was on rounds and didn't do much anyway.

Thoughts or suggestions?

[jsaxton 0]

Flaring with rear risers can cause your canopy to stall.
Be careful.

[billvon 2,400]

>It would come into play if there were a problem with toggles or
> something, right?

And may come into play later if you start getting into swooping. If so, you are much, much better off learning under a larger canopy.

> How would I safely go about learning how to land using just rear
> risers?

Practice up high of course. Choose a good day (medium winds, steady, soft ground/grass) for your landing attempt. Keep the toggles in your hands as you prepare to flare with the rear risers. Pull them down just far enough to stop your descent and leave them there. You won't be able to get much more flare than that. You should be able to get your vertical speed to zero, but rear risers won't slow your forward speed down as much as brakes will (which is one reason they are used for swoops.)

From there you can do one of two things. Either hold the risers there until you touch down, although you will be going forward faster than normal so you may have to run/PLF depending on winds. Alternatively, drop the risers and keep the toggles in your hands; finish the flare with toggles. For your first try, rear risers alone is probably a good idea.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Justin,
rear-risering for the sake of saving your life is something that everyone ought to know, under most conditions anyway. An example of someone who probably ought not try to land this way on the first try is that guy jumping a sub-100 square foot main who breaks a control line on opening. Personally, if that happens, even I might consider chopping.
Still, larger canopies are no problem to land in rear risers. The key, whether for swooping or survival, is to grab both rears in the same manner and in the same place. Larger canopies can have a fairly long (comparatively) rear riser stroke, and as such are less prone to stalling. The smaller the canopy, the more prone to stalling on rears they become and, also, the more twitchy they become. For "survival" under smaller mains (like if you broke a control line at 500 feet; too low to chop), I recommend grabbing both rear risers at about head level, palms facing in, with the meat of the webbing under all four fingers. (still in survival mode here). make easy turns onto final, then let it fly straight in. As you approach flaring altitude, rotate your thumbs back towards the rear, levering the rears down only far enough to get you on plane, close enough to the ground to put your feet down and slide. Don't even consider flaring a small main to a full stop landing; just be ready to slide it out on your ass, feet in front of you. Flaring a canopy to a full stop with rear risers is a very tricky proposition, often resulting in bowtieing and stalling the main at too high an altitude. It is not hard to fully stop under a lightly loaded main, though, and given a bit of practice up top, is not that daunting a task.

I actually landed a Monarch 135 on rear risers BACKWARDS (toggles were not looped on properly and my friend had hooked it up backwards on purpose). Dumb, yes, but I wasn't about to chop a perfectly good main; I had still yet to have a reserve ride.

Chuck

[jfields 0]

Bill & Chuck,

Thanks! That was exactly the kind of information I wanted. I'm nowhere near even considering swooping, but figured that learning this stuff now on a docile canopy would be a good addition to my "Emergency Bag of Tricks". I'll practice it the next time I jump and let you know how it goes.

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[flyhi 24]

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that guy jumping a sub-100 square foot main who breaks a control line on opening. Personally, if that happens, even I might consider chopping.

I think you have a great big teammate who did just that and then regretted it for several hundred feet. Ever see the video?

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Are you talking about the first jump he put on that Onyx 95?

[flyhi 24]

That's the one. Pretty excitin', huh!

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[skymedic 0]

Chuck....here's a question for you...and Bill von too...

what if you can only get one toggle released? should you try to flare with one riser in brakes and the other with the toggle released....I just don't see good things with this set up....one will be released the other wont....

the reason I ask this is that a friend was lost this way when his canopy stalled trying to land like this...

personaly I had a problem getting my toggle out last week...and almost chopped when I got it out at 2000....

what to do??....

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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what if you can only get one toggle released? should you try to flare with one riser in brakes and the other with the toggle released....

I would chop any of my sport rigs that had this happen, but I have landed a demo rig this way and my tactical rig also(rigger packed no less). I too had a friend get fucked up that way under a pretty heavily loaded main, so I would never consider it under either of my tiny sport mains.

[cobaltdan 0]

"I can use them up high to some extent, but it is very hard to judge the subtleties of timing a flair without the ground as a reference. "


true, but you can learn enough up high to give you the skills required for your potential emergency rear riser landing situation.

additionally, it will improve your skills to practice mock swoops and landings without using the ground as primary reference...what i mean is that your sence of balance plays a huge part in properly executing swoop landings. it is simply to learn to feel, without any visual reference, at what part of your arc you are at. in high, clear airspace try it with your eyes shut.

not sure if i am explaining myself well today...basically restated from an old thread on "balance and canopy control"

sincerely,

dan<><>

as far as landing with one brake set....hmm never really though about that one. i would like to think that i would never open so low as to not to be able to diagnose that problem befor my cutaway deck. i would think that you basically have 2 options at that point: fly carefully in brakes and attempt landing, or cut the brake line and land on rear risers...the correct choice i believe depends on the particular canopy, loading and weather. brake settings differ from design to design, as does low speed flight performance and safety in turbulence.

<><>

Daniel Preston <><>
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[Spy38W 0]

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as far as landing with one brake set....hmm never really though about that one. i would like to think that i would never open so low as to not to be able to diagnose that problem befor my cutaway deck. i would think that you basically have 2 options at that point: fly carefully in brakes and attempt landing, or cut the brake line and land on rear risers...

Or howabout option 3 of restowing the brake that did release, at least that way you wouldn't have to fight holding a toggle on one side, and a riser on the other.

I think I've got some built up complacency about this because I can't imagine how a toggle would get stuck in the first place. As it is now, sometimes I just ride the canopy with both brakes stowed and pop them (below decision altitude) while getting ready for landing set up (long spot, canopy traffic, etc) I guess I should re-think this practice and pop them after opening/stowing and just hold the canopy in brakes if I need to.

--
Hook high, flare on time

[skymedic 0]

Spy..I used to do just like you...ride in brakes till below my decision height.....but this time as I was trying to pull my slider down it popped a toggle free and locked up the other one....it took my 1500 feet to get the one free...it was a mess...I was sooo close to cutting away....just something to think about...

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[Spy38W 0]

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This time as I was trying to pull my slider down it popped a toggle free and locked up the other one....it took my 1500 feet to get the one free...it was a mess...I was sooo close to cutting away....just something to think about...

Glad you made it alright. Thanks for sharing.

Out of curiosity, how did the slider lock up a toggle, I'm having trouble imagining this. TIA

--
Hook high, flare on time

[Scoby 0]

This happened to me a few weeks ago. My slider had come down over the toggles a bit, but I didn't notice. When I pulled on the toggles, one released and the other one remained stuck. I was surprised by how quickly the canopy spiraled. I managed to pull the slider back over the toggle and release it, but it was just above decision altitude, and I would have chopped if it took a second or two more. Of course, I felt pretty stupid, as I should have seen that the slider was over the toggles.

Shortly after I landed, I heard a couple of people talking about someone else who had chopped for the same reason. I felt pretty good that I cleared it, but I learned a valuable lesson at the same time.

[billvon 2,400]

>what if you can only get one toggle released?

Amy had this problem. She messed with it for 1000 feet, then finally gave up, wrapped the released toggle around the riser to keep it roughly in the same position as the stowed one, and flared a bit with rear risers. She was jumping the Nova 150 back then I think, and landed with no problems. Unfortunately she landed in Mexico since she wasn't paying attention to where she was going.

[RichM 0]

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what if you can only get one toggle released? should you try to flare with one riser in brakes and the other with the toggle released....

I would chop any of my sport rigs that had this happen, but I have landed a demo rig this way and my tactical rig also.

Would it be safer to restow the fired brake so that the canopy is flying symmetrical, and then riser flare? Or does that carry more risk?

Rich M

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

As fast as my sport mains come out of the sky and turn, I would have a hard time tieing a toggle back up. I am also not sure I would want to land either of my small canopies straight in with the brakes stowed. No problem under a large main, but I would probably just do as someone else said: cut the other brake line and rear-riser it in from full glide.

Chuck