Canopy Comparison

[geanky 0]

For anybody that has flown a cobalt, nitron and crossfire2; how do you think they stack-up against each other? Consider all aspects of flight (toggle, front riser, rear riser, flare, etc).

[rhino 0]

Only flown the cfire2, don't know about the others, I asked CobaltDan the same question..
Rhino
Blue Skies .....

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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For anybody that has flown a cobalt, nitron and crossfire2; how do you think they stack-up against each other? Consider all aspects of flight (toggle, front riser, rear riser, flare, etc).

Here is my opinion of the Nitro/Nitron: it sucks completely. Steep and fast dives, but no bottom end. Might as well jump an old Safire.
Feel free to compare the general flight characteristics of the stock Cobalt and the original Crossfire. The Competition Cobalt is a better parachute than both (for swooping), but as I have not jumped a Crossfire 2, I cannot compare it to anything. I would love to give it a try (assuming they would give me a 75).
Seriously though, if you are in it for swooping, stay away from a Nitro/Nitron; they are not competitive.
Chuck
Are you a Monkey or a Flunky? HERE

[Watcher 0]

wow, What was the wing loading you had on the canopy, I fly mine at 1.6 (Nitron 120) and get amazing bottom end flare. TJ landgren was talking to me about it and said he was flying an 88 at 2.3 and was still getting great bottom end on it, said it was a great canopy, of which I agree with him. I flare it and it keeps going and going and going. The comparison to a safire i dont seem possible, those simply suck comparably. I found the nitron very very close to a Stiletto with a better longer flare stroke, better bottom end, less oversteer (the 2 hotdogs are like a stol conversion for those that are pilots). No a Nitron is not going to be able to beat cross braced, but either is a stiletto. But to say is sucks completely i think you are wrong, but thats my opinion. Demo them all, My next canopy will be a Velocity 96 or 103.
Jonathan
D-24876

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I guess I should temper my statement by saying that the ones (two of them) I jumped didn't impress me one bit. I will add to that by saying that I thought it flew like a Vengeance, which I bought, flew, also hated, then sold ten days later. If I wanted a parachute that only swooped as far as a Stiletto, I would have never sold the two I had. The Nitron I flew last was brand spanking new and was an 88. Like I said, it dove like a crossbrace, but was mushy and didn't do anything on the bottom end. Just my opinion, but I do not judge things before giving them every opportunity to impress me. What I stated was my opinion, not any "official" position of dropzone.com (obviously). You may very well be happy with that parachute for what you use it for, but as a full-time swooper, it just doesn't do anything for me, especially when compared against a Crossfire or Cobalt; both outstanding swoop mains.
Are you a Monkey or a Flunky? HERE

[roq 0]

I have some hundreds jumps with cobalt and impulse 85 and some dozens jumps with Nitro 88 and my opinion is the follow:
Nitro and Cobalt both are very good soft and straight opennings but in general the cobalt have more long recovery arc, more low front risers pressure, more steep glide in full flight.

Roq

[skycat 0]

cobalt 120 @ 1.1 vs crossfire2 108 @ 1.2
Cobalt was twichier and had tons more oversteer
Crossfire2 had a longer recovery arc
Crossfire2 opened softer
Crossfire2 had increadable bottom end and slow flight characteristics it just wanted to keep flying forever and was no problem shutting down to a complete stop with nothing more than a step or 2 even crosswind
Cobalt stalled abruptly on landing, and to get any plane out and glide on the landing you would have to have done something to induce more speed, which I don't do.
Both responsive with harness imput
I could pull down the front risers on both (I'm a wuss)
Crossfire2 had better glide
Basically the Cobalt felt like it was trying to fly me during flight and landed like a square.
Crossfire2 makes you feel in control of the canopy and gives you smooth soft landings.
On a side note the 1 nitron at my old DZ (I think it was a 135 or 150) on a no wind day just seemed to keep gliding across the ground, and shut down beautifully. I really wanted to demo one but never was able to get a responce from PA. Oh well, my next canopy will be a Crossfire2.

[crazy 0]

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Here is my opinion of the Nitro/Nitron: it sucks completely. Steep and fast dives, but no bottom end. Might as well jump an old Safire.

ROTFLMAO With such an amazing talent for bashing competitors' products you are probably sponsored by atair, aren't you?
Strange that after ~300 jumps on nitro(n)s 120, 108 and 98 i still think that for the price it's a very good deal. Though i'm nothing close to a pond swooper.
come

[cockroach 0]

I wish that the atair community would be a little bit more "open minded", then it would make sense to discuss with them....
btw: are all the pond swoopers jumping cobolt's?

[rhino 0]

Crossfire2, 97 at 1.85
I have posted it before, I'll post again in case anyone missed it..
I now have 15 jumps on my new crossfire2.
Compared to the crossfire1-109 and the Diablo110 "what I thought was the fastest turning canopy alive"
The cfire2 is going to suprise people that have flown the original crossfire. Is is definitely better than the original.
It turns faster than the Diablo or original crossfire.
Recovery arc is much longer
Response in every facet of flight is faster
Front riser pressure is lighter
Comes around the corner faster when forced
Crossfire2 has a very VERY slow stall speed, comparable to the Diablo.
The bottom end is phenominal on the cfire2, I didn't have a problem with the crossfire1 but the Diablo's bottom end sucked.
This canopy feels like it is on rails. It is the most controllable, solid canopy I have ever jumped. Don't loosen your chest strap and you might feel bumps that you otherwise wouldn't.
This is an amazing canopy. The openings are very nice and getting more predictable with packing technique. Subterminal openings are a dream.. Very soft and easy..
The fact that this canopy sais ICARUS on it has absolutely nothing to do with the purchase. The crossfire2 is the best flying canopy I have ever seen. I have flown an fx also, I prefer the crossfire2 over the fx anyday, I also prefer it's flight characteristics over the Xaos as well. Hard to believe but neither really compare when it comes to sheer response time from input to canopy reaction. This thing is fast, very fast.
Rhino
Blue Skies .....

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I think I clearly posted that I am plenty "open minded". I am certainly no xenophobe, having jumped all but two performance canopies I find suitable for swooping. I like many, many of them and wouldn't mind winning the lottery so that I could afford more parachutes. My wife and I usually have five or six rigs between us and no, they do not all contain Atair mains (actually only two do). Anyway, the original question asked for comparisons (by those who had jumped) three different mains. I, having done so, gave my opinion. My opinion of the Nitron/Nitro has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that I own several Cobalts (which, by the way, I paid for). I am equally happy voicing my displeasure of the PD Vengeance, which I also think sucks completely for the exact same reason (bottom end swoop distance). I have plenty of friends who really love these mains, but then again they expect a parachute to do different things than I do. Skydiving is an individual event in the end, and I certainly don't claim to be the ultimate "judge" of what people ought to jump; do what you like and jump what you want. But, please make the effort to try everything in the catagory before you go spouting "mine is better than your's" as is common practice on every single dropzone I have ever stepped foot on. I state my opinions based on personal experience, not what some other sponsored person tells me, regardless of what anyone else might think.
Chuck
Are you a Monkey or a Flunky? HERE

[Remster 24]

Hey mr. anonymous Roach.... what make you feel you have to say that the atair community is closed minded (hey guys, you're a community now! lol) this when Chuck actually posted:

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especially when compared against a Crossfire or Cobalt; both outstanding swoop mains

One might say that Dan's posts are mor etime then none a little biased... but I always emnjoy reading Chuck's posts as they ARE open minded....
Remi (who has never owned/flown any Atair product)
Remster
Muff 914

[kopelen 0]

Coackroach, Like Chuck said, THINK before you make a comment.
Having talked with Chuck on the topic of what canopy to buy etc. He gives advice from the many of a canopy that he has jumped. I personally demoed a Vengeance, Stiletto, and a Cobalt before I made a decision to buy a Cobalt. Remember informed decisions are best.

[cobaltdan 0]

kelly,
curious review...twitchy, oversteer, stalled.. are words you do not hear to describe a cobalt.... at 1.1 loading the canopy is below our recommended minimum (1.2) and is simply a boat. and in no way possible to be twitchy.
---
as far as the nitro, i will point out that atair was the original contract manufacturer of the design. we were personally unimpressed with them compared to other canopies and were not interested in making them. several years later precision parted ways with their partnership in icarus and modeled their new product line on the icarus canopies they had been producing. given the timing they obviously did not model anything on the crossfire. the nitro design was marketed in the us unsucessfully for a few years by the german contingent and then picked up by precision to fill the crossfire/cobalt gap in their new line. my personal opinion is i dont like the fact that the winglets were added to increase stability, instead of decreasing drag (nitro winglets increase drag). overall i dont think is a bad canopy just imo in its field there are several more impressive canopies.
jump what makes you happy.
sincerely,
dan

[alan 1]

I have to go with Jonathon's opinion on the Nitron. I have 15 or 20 jumps on a 135 so far at about 1.7#/ft2 and it has had really great bottom end lift and flair. Short recovery arc with a flat glide like the Stiletto. Speed is similar to Stiletto but I thought it had much better surf, better than my 136 Jedei also. That is hard for me to admit because I have always loved my Jedei. It has great openings, like a Stiletto with better manners, it stays on heading. It turns moderately fast with no real oversteer, but is not twitchy in the turns either. I'm going to put more jumps on it and also try out a 120, but so far I haven't found anything about it I don't like. The Safire is a much better canopy than it gets credit for, but you do have to take the time and jumps to learn to fly it the way it likes to be flown. Also, I adjust the brake settings on any canopy I fly after the first jump at the factory setting. I have yet to find a canopy that I like performance at the factory brake setting. Nitron I think is higher peformance than the Safire, at least in most areas, but is easier to fly. I chose the Safire as a transition canopy for my daughter for her first canopy from student gear. She jumped a PD 170 as a student (.9#/ft2) and is much happier with the Safire 149. I've seen her get 50 to 60 ft surfs into a 10 to 12 mph headwind since she learned to fly it. She said it sucked at first, while flying it like the PD 170. After a little coaching, she out surfs more experienced jumpers on supposedly more high performance canopies. I have not jumped the Crossfire 2 yet but have several jumps on the original model, 120 and 98, I think. They had performance in the same class as the Nitron, but as others have repeatedly pointed out, jump and evaluate for yourself. Each canopy has its' own personality and you have to find one that blends with yours. Experiment with brake trim. Geez, there are just so many variables, density altitude on the day(s) you demo, the wind, even your attitude and mind set. I really believe that at 15 to 20 jumps, you are just beginning to learn the particular canopy which means demoing is really a crap shoot at best too. Don't condemn a canopy because "you" don't like it, there are just too many factors that can have had an influence on your perceptions and judgement. HMA lines are an issue now because there is the perception that they are "new" and unproven in the field. They are not new, but have not been in widespread use here in the US. My guess is that HMA will for all intents and purposes, effectively replace Vectran on the majority of ultra high performance canopies while Spectra will remain the standard on most others. Something new will come along as well.
alan

[skycat 0]

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curious review...twitchy, oversteer, stalled.. are words you do not hear to describe a cobalt.... at 1.1 loading the canopy is below our recommended minimum (1.2) and is simply a boat. and in no way possible to be twitchy.

Well considering at the time I jumped it I was jumping a crossfire1 116 at the same wingloading with none of the above flight characteristics, let's just say the cobalt left ALOT to be desired, which was why I got another crossfire. I just wasn't impressed at all, Eric had a 105 out at Skydive Houston, but pretty much everyone who jumped it warned me that it tended to open hard and if I didn't like the opening of the 120 I wouldn't like the 105. So now I have my little sunshine who opens sweet and flairs like a dream even at 6700ft.

btw...I thought you said a cobalt was a great beginner canopy, I'm sorry but I don't find 1.2 a very good beginner wingloading, especially here in Colorado.

Fly it like you stole it!