Diablo pilots

[wlie 0]

Does anyone who own or has jumped a Diablo please share with me their experience with that canopy?
Since getting licensed I've purchased my first rig - Mirage M4(w/ velcro riser covers - yeah yeah yeah), Diablo 170, Raven Dash-M 181, and Cypres. All for $1900 (laugh at that y'all) at www.parachuteshop.com. Thanks Don!
The experienced jumpers at my DZ have been helpful in coaching my canopy skills as I downsize. My last 5 jumps were on a Silhouette 190, 2 jumps before that was on a Silhouette 210, and 8 jumps before that was on a PD 210. The SkyMaster 290 I started with has looked after me well.
And I'm not going any size smaller until I'm good and ready to tango with my Diablo.
By the way, I'll be loading it around 1.3.

[TALONSKY 0]

I know this is not the information you wanted but you might want to put 50-100 jumps on a Sabre class canopy (rectangle or slightly elliptical) before trying the Diablo. I would think a fully elliptical main would be a persons second or third canopy not their first.
Blue Skies
Kirk

[rhino 0]

PM me and I'll answer questions about the Diablo.. I have a Diablo110 at 1.7
Blue Skies .....

[Kirils 1]

"you might want to put 50-100 jumps on a Sabre class canopy (rectangle or slightly elliptical) before trying the Diablo"
The decent angle on the Diablo (7 cell) is much steeper
than most 9 cells. If you want a transition canopy go with a Triathlon. As a new jumper, a 9 cell to 7 cell transition can be a bit scary when it comes to landing. The Diablo turns quickly and if pushed hard at higher loading, you can spin the canopy into twists requiring a cut-away. I think if you keep the loading at 1:1 the Diablo is a tame canopy, but it requires greater techncal skills as the loading goes up. As always, have your canopy control skills evaluated by an instructor and get their counsel on what is appropriate to fly for your skill level. Good Luck!!
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[rhino 0]

Kirilis is very correct. The diablo comes in on fire. very steep. Once you get above 1.4 the sweetspot becomes very thin on landing so mistakes will cost you. If you don't have the 4.0 mod on the brakes I would suggest you get it. I have jumpes allot of canopies. The Diablo is THE fastest turning canopy I have ever seen. It is very possible to get in over your head with the Diablo if you haven't transitioned properly. Be carefull..
Rhino
Blue Skies .....

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

The Diablo is THE fastest turning canopy I have ever seen.

I think you need to jump a few more canopies, rhino...
But in general, I'd agree. The Diablo is a high performance canopy, and is recomended for advanced pilots. I'm quite sure that you won't find anyone here recomending it as a first canopy.
If you are going to buy it, then I hope you'll do it safely. You haven't spoken about wing-loading, I hope it's no more then 1:1. I'm pleased to hear that you're downsizing one size at a time. I'm also pleased to hear that you're talking to your instructors throughout the process.
Once you get the canopy, only do straight in approaches for the first few hundred jumps. Don't ever turn land in a turn. Set up your approaches from far away so that you don't need to do low turns.
Keep in mind that you're jumping a canopy that was designed for and marketed to experts - people with hundreds of jumps. If you forget this you will get hurt, and that would suck.
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[rhino 0]

Maybe I said it wrong... This is the fastest turning canopy I have ever jumped In comparison to my Diablo110 at 1.7
Xaos98, Diablo turns much faster
Fx114, Diablo turns faster
spinnetto120, Diablo turns faster
Sabre120,135,150,170,190,210, Diablo turns faster
Diablo120, Diablo110 turns faster Omega, Diablo turns faster
Triathlon135, 150, Diablo turns faster
Falcon many sizes, Diablo is faster lol
Spectre 120-150, Diablo turns faster
Saphire139 I think, Diablo faster
Splatwing129 I think, Diablo faster
This is all I could think of off the top of my head..
I am purchasing a new Crossfire97.. I think that will do the trick..
Blue Skies .....

[Kirils 1]

Agreed...my Chaos 108 dosen't turn as fast as a similar sized Diablo.
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[eames 0]

Yeah, my Xaos 98 doesn't turn as fast as a lot of other canopies. Even at 2.4. But I don't want a fast turn rate-- I want the extremely large recovery arc for speed building. I like the smooth controlled turns with great amounts of altitude loss. Great for swooping. But trust me, you can make a Xaos fly/turn as fast as you want it to.
Jason

[rhino 0]

Also,
On my Diablo110 I could hang in double fronts twice as long as on the Xaos98.. I have no clue as to why that is.
Rhino
Blue Skies .....

[eames 0]

Quote

On my Diablo110 I could hang in double fronts twice as long as on the Xaos98.. I have no clue as to why that is.

As I understand it, as forward speed increases, front riser pressure increases. The cleaner the airfoil, the higher the top forward speed, the more lift the canopy can create, the higher the front riser pressure can build to after a speed building maneuver. I'm sure it also has a lot to do with airfoil shape, line trim, etc.. I've never jumped a Diablo, but being that it's a conventional design, I doubt that it's capable of reaching the same top forward speed as the Xaos.
I've never had any trouble staying on front risers on a Xaos. They have very light front riser pressure. I can still make minor adjustments even after a carving 360. But I'm usually off the front risers before I even finish a turn like a 360. I'll finish it with harness input and start transitioning to rear risers anyway....
Jason

[rhino 0]

I can pretty much assure you that I could hit a higher top speed diving the Diablo110 than the Xaos98. You can FEEL the speed, you can hear it.
For all I know the brake lines on the Xaos may have needed adjusting. But I'm telling you the Diablo is a bad mf.. Especially when loaded. It is extremely high performance especially for the person that likes to play high and it's ability to land and shut down in small places is excellent.
If you haven't tried a Diablo at 1.7 you might want to just to understand just how fast and hard that thing dives and turns. And I am not sure the Diablo would be classified as a conventional design or not?
I would put it in the high performance class.
I don't think I was loading the Xaos98 enough for the performance I wanted. I am simply not willing to load anymore than 1.8ish.. That is my limit for the next 500 jumps minimum.
Rhino
Blue Skies .....

[AndyMan 7]

I'm sure the fact that you're jumping the Diablo WAY over the manufacturers recomended limits have nothing to do with this?
Are you recomending that other people jump their canopy over the manufacturers limits just so they can have as much fun as you do? Or, do you think maybe it's a good idea for them to buy a canopy that was designed to be loaded that heavily?
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[rhino 0]

WAAAY over?? I don't think so.. I am hitting the Diablo110 at 1.6, 1.7 with 10lbs of weight..
I'm 175 out the door.. The 110 had NO problem setting me down in straight in landings even with weight on.. I have seen people load their Diablo's allot higher than I am loading mine. And no I'm not suggesting that anyone do anything that is beyond their skill level flying a canopy. If you haven't flown a high performance canopy at 1.6-1.7 ish than I would suggest working your way their if you are interested.. I started with the Triathlon, Then a Diablo120, then a Diablo110.. Landing a highly loaded Diablo is a different beast than say a Stilletto.. The bottom ends tend to get thin, so unless you are use to walking on the sweetspot of a seven cell I would suggest progression and practice..
Even an overloaded VX-60 is safe in the hands of a good pilot..
Rhino
Blue Skies .....

[imdskydiver 0]

Rhino is slightly overloading his Diablo but only slightly. A/R recommends a max wing loading of 1.5 .

[rhino 0]

I would have stayed with the Diablo for a while but I really started to like the whole surf thing. Diablo tends to shut down pretty fast.. Not a swoop machine but all around fun and fast..
Rhino
Blue Skies .....

[amir1967 0]

It is nice, surffing, even at 1.2 or 1.4 on stiletto or any other eliptic canopy then fun of landing make me want to go and jump again just to land and I have only 120 jump
amir
AM67

[rhino 0]

I put 3 jumps on a crossfire109 today. The canopy was on the mod list and had 250+ jumps on it. I must say I am impressed.. Turns fast.. Dived hard.. Bottom end is excellent.. It was a windy day 10-15.. This thing flew right through it. Nice canopy..
Blue Skies .....

[Kirils 1]

Rhino,
I jump a Chaos 21 and a Diablo. I'm starting to think the Diablo is the best transition canopy to the Chaos. The descent angle is very similar. I hear about Chaos newbies saying "the Chaos drops like a bomb..." Shit...they never cranked a toggle hard on a Diablo at 1.7!
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[rhino 0]

True.. The Diablo at 1.7 drops a hell of allot faster than a Xaos at 1.7..
Jumped a crossfire109 today at 1.7.. It compares to the Diablo only better on the bottom end.. It dives a bit more too.. Very nice!!!!!
Rhino
Blue Skies .....

[sdctlc 0]

I have both a Diablo (at a lower load) and a Xaos21 (at a higher load) than Rhino's reference mark of 1.7. The Diablo is extremely fast into toggle turns but slower on the front riser turns. Very fast towards the ground in any full turn though. Overall a very fun canopy to fly. It does require a conscience countersteer to stop a hard toggle turn right on the heading you want. Front riser pressure is a little higher but you mnight expect that given the less tapered leading edge. That is also a contributing factor to the slower entry into a front riser turn.
The Xaos is simply an outstanding design for additional canopy flying purposes, extremely fast turns (though I have to admit the diablo seems to be close though in toggle turn times) Xaos has a much nicer/faster entry into the front riser turns. The Xaos is designed to drop and have a long recovery arch for building speed and it does that very well. The Diablo has a smaller recovery arch and though it does generate speed it is not a super surfing machine.
This conversation is really like comparing apples to oranges, they are designed for two different flying styles separate from the main task of getting you to the ground. Boh are great designs and a helluva lot of fun to fly....
Scott C.

[wlie 0]

So now I've got a service bulletin compliant Dash-M, and my Cypres is back from it's 4 yr., my rigger's going to put everything back together for my first jump. Whoohoo! Case of beer!
What I've gathered from your inputs, it is safe to conclude that
1) I should fly my Diablo with various conrol inputs as I get to know it
2) There's always next time to fly it more agressively
3) You guys are way more experienced thus being able to load a canopy that high!
I've been reading lots of information pertaining to higher windloads and ellipticals. And I guess it is also safe to summarize as follows:
The effects of higher wingloading produces
1) Noticable and more instantaneous response with slight changes in control inputs
2) Higher the descent rate
Elliptical canopies:
1) More lift on the more effective surface (around the center)
2) Less drag on the less effective surfaces (the sides)
Thus more lift, more speed, more responsive, less forgiving. So I better be comfortable flying on the Silhouette 190 before flying my Diablo.
I've also done some wingloading analysis of not only the Diablo, but also the Dash-M based on the manfacture's recommendations - have to also consider my last ditch. Based on my findings, a canopy flies differently depending on the jumper's weight.
So in order to fly the Diablo on the tame side of the scale, I'm going to lose 5-10 lbs. And when I'm ready to load it at 1.7, I'll just put on 60 lbs.

[rhino 0]

The Diablo is a fun canopy.. A very fun canopy.. It was made for people that want to have fun up high but still want to be able to STOP their canopy quickly. It is not a swoop machine by any means but is is allot of fun to fly. The moment you get above 1.4 ish you start to walk the thin line as far as the landing sweetspot of the Diablo.
The Diablo comes in very steep.. Especially the higher you load it. Unless you know how to do a smooth staged flair you could hurt yourself. You could hurt yourself on any canopy for that matter but you really have to pay attention with the Diablo. I loved mine. I would like to think that I transitioned in a smart fashion. I found personally that the higher I loaded certain canopies the easier they were to fly and land. I had to get used to a surf type of landing instead of the flair and stop landing like I had on my Triathlon150. I think surfing and a normal landing under a bigger canopy are 2 different animals. Right now I am jumping a crossfire109.. It compares to the Diablo in virtually every range of flight and I would dare say outperformes the Diablo110. I have 6 jumps on the crossfire109 in the last week and am very impressed with the glide, turn rate, stability, and response time of the canopy. It can fly very fast or very slow. Very impressive actually. I have a new crossfire97 coming soon.
Just be carefull.. It's o.k. to test yourself just do it smartly and systematically. If you are willing to accept the risks you also get the enjoyment that comes with it. You don't have to load the Diablo to have fun with it.
If you aren't confident in your ability. And I mean truly confident then go big.. It is o.k. to wear weight when your experience and confidence builds.
Rhino
Blue Skies .....