mujie96 0 #1 September 9, 2002 I'm looking at a few different helmets, ranging from a Protec (which I use now) to the Mindwarp-I keep seeing these little notes at the bottom of the descriptions that reveal that there is little or no testing or research behind them. Are there any helmets with a safety rating, or at least some testing data? Jess Just keep swimming...just keep swimming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 September 9, 2002 From the skydiving helmet manufactures? Nope. You can get an old school Bell helmet, those are DOT rated. For the most part, just about the only helmets that are tested or actually claim to have been tested are the DOT approved types. If a company published its testing data and didn't have a DOT rating, that would open them up to liabilty issues in court, so they're going to stay well away from that.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mujie96 0 #3 September 9, 2002 Oh, damn. Anyone have any experience with a helmet that held up well to a hard whack? Other than the Protec that is, I've already tested that one, it worked and I'm going to get my own-I'm just doing a little research for after I finish paying for my rig and want something else. Jess Just keep swimming...just keep swimming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craig 0 #4 September 9, 2002 In my opinion, a pro-tec is going to give the most impact protection. I have a bonehead mindwarp and can imagine it is not going to protect your head all that well in the case of a very hard impact but I still feel it might be better than nothing. Although I wasn't hurt I did "feel" the bump as my head hit the top of the tailgate when launching a dive this past weekend....and heard my dytter beep when launching another dive this weekend when it came in contact with someone and a button pressed. There are also scuff marks and a little paint from the roof of the plane on it as well. Frankly I think the little bumps as stated above are about the only thing most skydiving helmets are good for, oh and cameras if your into that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #5 September 10, 2002 QuoteAre there any helmets with a safety rating, or at least some testing data? ...Some words from one with many years of sports car racing and instruction and thus many years in heavy full face helmets.... I wear a snowboard helmet with integral ear protetction. It just so happens that this Carrera helmet was onlt $30 more than a protec. It has a FISA (skiing 'Snell') rating meaning it has been designed and tested "for winter sports such as skiing and snowboarding". It has a solid foam liner much like a Z1 or others.(I also wear polycarbonate framed goggles, not Kroops or similar). If a skiier can hit an icy slope at 70-100 mph and slide, bouncing into fencing, moguls, etc, well, ... been there done that, didn't have the helmet then A FOAM LINER THAT ACCURATELY FORMS TO YOUR HEAD SHAPE WILL GIVE THE BEST PROTECTION AGAINST A BLUNT STRIKE. (did you hear that?) If you're safety conscious, step up from a helmet that has "computer hardware packing foam" as a liner (WAG). A FULL LINER and EAR protection (no half shell styles, please) will be your friends. Add 'framed' goggles that can protect your eye from a fist or a rock (ask me why ) and about all you have left exposed is your jaw. If you biff hard enough to break your jaw it's likely only one of many bones snapped (no beer bought yet) and most likely the least of your worries. Considering that the outer shell of any helmet is there ONLY to protect the form-fitted impact absorbing material next to your skull, I suggest looking at THAT part of a helmet first. If the shell blows up and you survive a biff, write a thank-you letter to the manufacturer! Blue Skies Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #6 September 10, 2002 Chile"the crip"Relleno. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #7 September 10, 2002 I've been looking at the new "boomerrang" by Bonehead as a possibility for a fullface but I've heard that carbonfibre shatters into nasty shards on some impacts so I really need to research that first. Chile"the crip'Relleno. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattwhoo 0 #8 September 10, 2002 Quote I've heard that carbonfibre shatters into nasty shards on some impacts so I really need to research that first. reply] I'm guessing that if hit something hard enough to shatter carbon fiber I don't think any helmet is going to help you much good. Matt Providing ingenious solutions to all of your nonexistent problems! (For a fee) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ducky 0 #9 September 10, 2002 After many a "drop ins" on a skateboard ramp as a kid I have the proof I need. With alow budget and safety as a FIRST priority it's the only way to go. You can get some pretty nice looking skateboard helmets from the local skateshop. Definately not the typical pro-tec you have in mind. Do yourself a favor and don't be suckered into paying skydiver prices for a protec or similar. kwakSometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield. Sometimes your the hammer sometimes your the nail. Question is Hun, Do you wanna get hammered or do you wanna get nailed????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mujie96 0 #10 September 10, 2002 Which Carrera helmet do you use? i just can't justify spending $200 on a helmet that does nothing other than look pretty. Jess Just keep swimming...just keep swimming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #11 September 10, 2002 I know a lot of really good skydivers who are jumping an old protec helmet. They may not be stylish but they offer a lot of protection. Mad John wears one. Mike Muscat (from Perris) also jumps one. Maybe they don't look cool, but you might be smart to jump with one. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dterrick 0 #12 September 10, 2002 Which Carrera helmet do you use? i just can't justify spending $200 on a helmet I found a jpeg of my lid @ http://www.carrerasport.com/products/index.php3 $90 Cdn in January Called an "explorer 2" today - last month's graphics were a bit different Dave PS: you DO remove the goggles clip from the rear of the helmet to avoid snags (no biggie). Also FYI, I test fitted an OLD STYLE dytter in the ear pocket and it fits - - -but to hear it you need to blank off the "vent holes". PPS: A set of sony sports headphones and an MP3 player and you have "inflight entertainment" ... X countries don't need to be boring Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mujie96 0 #13 September 10, 2002 Thanks, I am using one right now as I mentioned earlier. Just curious as to what else is out there. Jess Just keep swimming...just keep swimming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drenaline 0 #14 September 10, 2002 If you make a search on the forums you will see that alot of people here prefer the bonehead carbon fiber than the z1 kevlar. Carbon Fiber is much more stronger than the Z1 and there has been stories were the Z1 cracks and haven't still heard a story of the bonehead cracking. Hard shell helmets are good for collisions with another jumper, it protects from kicks while doing points or formations, will protect your head if you get a horrible landing, will protect your head if your canopy collapses at final, etc. Make sure you were a strong good non loose helmet. Protects are cheap and good. I prefer bonehead full face cause of the carbon fiber. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #15 September 10, 2002 QuoteCarbon Fiber is much more stronger than the Z1 and there has been stories were the Z1 cracks and haven't still heard a story of the bonehead cracking. Many knowledgeable people posting here will tell you that a helmet shell that cracks has absorbed much of the impact energy that would have been tranferred to your head, skull and brain, while one that doesn't, such as carbon fibre composites, tranfer much of that energy to your skull and can result in more serious injury to the brain. A lot of the newer jumpers like to advocate always wearing a helmet because of the added safety and protection, yet when you see what they are wearing it becomes obvious they are only concerned with the added protection as long as it looks cool. They would prefer to wear a more expensive helmet that looks neat rather than a less expensive model that offers more protection.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoby 0 #16 September 10, 2002 QuoteMany knowledgeable people posting here will tell you that a helmet shell that cracks has absorbed much of the impact energy that would have been tranferred to your head, skull and brain, while one that doesn't, such as carbon fibre composites, tranfer much of that energy to your skull and can result in more serious injury to the brain. I thought the point of the stiff helmet shell was to spread the force of the impact over a larger area and that the foam is what does the job of reducing the impulse. From what I understand, this is why premium motorcycle helmets are stiff shells of carbon fiber or kevlar. While I agree that skydiving helmets often seem to be more fashion than safety oriented, I don't necessarily agree that a cracked helmet shell is a sign of superior protection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #17 September 10, 2002 A cracked shell in and of itself is not necessarily a sign of a superior helmet, neither is one that doesn't crack. The foam liner and fit interact with the shell to provide varying levels of protection. A Protec for example may not crack or split because of the soft shell, but it flexes to absorb energy. Combine that with a good fit and thick foam padding, you have a helmet that offers a high level of protection. The weight of the helmet is also a factor. A heavy helmet can cause neck injuries because of the kinetic energy they generate. It seems that protection is a series of trade offs and that a helmet that is a good choice for one application may not necessarily be good for another. I have to wonder why skydivers don't use premium motorcylce helmets or auto racing helmets? I would also wonder what is more effetive, spreading the force of impact over a larger area (in this case most of the skull, which is a somewhat limited area) or absorbing the enegry before it is transmitted to the skull.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Samurai136 0 #18 September 10, 2002 Motorcycle and auto helmets are cut lower on the back to prevent whiplash. If you try one on, sitting or standing, they restrict your ability to look straight up which is what most skydivers do in RW. As far as buying a new helmet, I recommend buying one that fits your budget. A Protec is just as good as a Skysystems A3 Oxygn Full-face w/ custom finish. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drenaline 0 #19 September 10, 2002 QuoteI have to wonder why skydivers don't use premium motorcylce helmets or auto racing helmets? just a thought, to heavy, lack of peripheral view and hard to move the head. I agree with you on what you said about the looks, its better to look bad and be safe than to look good and not be safe. QuoteA cracked shell in and of itself is not necessarily a sign of a superior helmet, neither is one that doesn't crack. I dunno about this one but if I remember correct the DOT test that they give to helmet is all about crack, they put the helmet in a variety of impacts (at different speeds and they even try to impale the helmet) to see if the helmet cracks, if it cracks its a no good, if it doesnt cracks then its a go. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,155 #20 September 10, 2002 Well, actually, skydivers DID used to use motorcycle helmets. Look at old (60's era and some 70's) pictures. Then came frap hats and hockey helmets, then the Pro-tec. Motorcycle helmets were less forgiving of a poor fit, and much heavier in a hard opening.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #21 September 11, 2002 QuoteI have to wonder why skydivers don't use premium motorcylce helmets or auto racing helmets? This was preceded by: QuoteIt seems that protection is a series of trade offs and that a helmet that is a good choice for one application may not necessarily be good for another. Along with a few other observations that should have made it obvious that the question was rhetorical in nature. I was around when motorcycle helmets were used by skydivers. Want to have some fun? Get a 12 oz boxing glove, then let a trusted friend clobber you on the back of the head. Then put on your $300 high tech composite helmet and ask them to clobber you again with as close to the same force as they can. I know, it is not very scientific and very subjective, but it will be funny as hell. And, just for kicks, if you have a full face helmet, let them lay a shot right on the chin part of the helmet. If you are not in the emergency room yet, try to get a set of the foam rubber protective head gear used for sparring and take the same shots. That may give you some idea how effective the hard shell is at distributing the load over a larger area. There is nothing wrong with always wearing a helmet if you so choose, but if you go that route, then wouldn't it make sense to ensure that the helmet you are wearing is actually the best one for the job?alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Ducky 0 #9 September 10, 2002 After many a "drop ins" on a skateboard ramp as a kid I have the proof I need. With alow budget and safety as a FIRST priority it's the only way to go. You can get some pretty nice looking skateboard helmets from the local skateshop. Definately not the typical pro-tec you have in mind. Do yourself a favor and don't be suckered into paying skydiver prices for a protec or similar. kwakSometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield. Sometimes your the hammer sometimes your the nail. Question is Hun, Do you wanna get hammered or do you wanna get nailed????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mujie96 0 #10 September 10, 2002 Which Carrera helmet do you use? i just can't justify spending $200 on a helmet that does nothing other than look pretty. Jess Just keep swimming...just keep swimming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #11 September 10, 2002 I know a lot of really good skydivers who are jumping an old protec helmet. They may not be stylish but they offer a lot of protection. Mad John wears one. Mike Muscat (from Perris) also jumps one. Maybe they don't look cool, but you might be smart to jump with one. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #12 September 10, 2002 Which Carrera helmet do you use? i just can't justify spending $200 on a helmet I found a jpeg of my lid @ http://www.carrerasport.com/products/index.php3 $90 Cdn in January Called an "explorer 2" today - last month's graphics were a bit different Dave PS: you DO remove the goggles clip from the rear of the helmet to avoid snags (no biggie). Also FYI, I test fitted an OLD STYLE dytter in the ear pocket and it fits - - -but to hear it you need to blank off the "vent holes". PPS: A set of sony sports headphones and an MP3 player and you have "inflight entertainment" ... X countries don't need to be boring Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mujie96 0 #13 September 10, 2002 Thanks, I am using one right now as I mentioned earlier. Just curious as to what else is out there. Jess Just keep swimming...just keep swimming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #14 September 10, 2002 If you make a search on the forums you will see that alot of people here prefer the bonehead carbon fiber than the z1 kevlar. Carbon Fiber is much more stronger than the Z1 and there has been stories were the Z1 cracks and haven't still heard a story of the bonehead cracking. Hard shell helmets are good for collisions with another jumper, it protects from kicks while doing points or formations, will protect your head if you get a horrible landing, will protect your head if your canopy collapses at final, etc. Make sure you were a strong good non loose helmet. Protects are cheap and good. I prefer bonehead full face cause of the carbon fiber. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #15 September 10, 2002 QuoteCarbon Fiber is much more stronger than the Z1 and there has been stories were the Z1 cracks and haven't still heard a story of the bonehead cracking. Many knowledgeable people posting here will tell you that a helmet shell that cracks has absorbed much of the impact energy that would have been tranferred to your head, skull and brain, while one that doesn't, such as carbon fibre composites, tranfer much of that energy to your skull and can result in more serious injury to the brain. A lot of the newer jumpers like to advocate always wearing a helmet because of the added safety and protection, yet when you see what they are wearing it becomes obvious they are only concerned with the added protection as long as it looks cool. They would prefer to wear a more expensive helmet that looks neat rather than a less expensive model that offers more protection.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #16 September 10, 2002 QuoteMany knowledgeable people posting here will tell you that a helmet shell that cracks has absorbed much of the impact energy that would have been tranferred to your head, skull and brain, while one that doesn't, such as carbon fibre composites, tranfer much of that energy to your skull and can result in more serious injury to the brain. I thought the point of the stiff helmet shell was to spread the force of the impact over a larger area and that the foam is what does the job of reducing the impulse. From what I understand, this is why premium motorcycle helmets are stiff shells of carbon fiber or kevlar. While I agree that skydiving helmets often seem to be more fashion than safety oriented, I don't necessarily agree that a cracked helmet shell is a sign of superior protection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #17 September 10, 2002 A cracked shell in and of itself is not necessarily a sign of a superior helmet, neither is one that doesn't crack. The foam liner and fit interact with the shell to provide varying levels of protection. A Protec for example may not crack or split because of the soft shell, but it flexes to absorb energy. Combine that with a good fit and thick foam padding, you have a helmet that offers a high level of protection. The weight of the helmet is also a factor. A heavy helmet can cause neck injuries because of the kinetic energy they generate. It seems that protection is a series of trade offs and that a helmet that is a good choice for one application may not necessarily be good for another. I have to wonder why skydivers don't use premium motorcylce helmets or auto racing helmets? I would also wonder what is more effetive, spreading the force of impact over a larger area (in this case most of the skull, which is a somewhat limited area) or absorbing the enegry before it is transmitted to the skull.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #18 September 10, 2002 Motorcycle and auto helmets are cut lower on the back to prevent whiplash. If you try one on, sitting or standing, they restrict your ability to look straight up which is what most skydivers do in RW. As far as buying a new helmet, I recommend buying one that fits your budget. A Protec is just as good as a Skysystems A3 Oxygn Full-face w/ custom finish. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #19 September 10, 2002 QuoteI have to wonder why skydivers don't use premium motorcylce helmets or auto racing helmets? just a thought, to heavy, lack of peripheral view and hard to move the head. I agree with you on what you said about the looks, its better to look bad and be safe than to look good and not be safe. QuoteA cracked shell in and of itself is not necessarily a sign of a superior helmet, neither is one that doesn't crack. I dunno about this one but if I remember correct the DOT test that they give to helmet is all about crack, they put the helmet in a variety of impacts (at different speeds and they even try to impale the helmet) to see if the helmet cracks, if it cracks its a no good, if it doesnt cracks then its a go. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,155 #20 September 10, 2002 Well, actually, skydivers DID used to use motorcycle helmets. Look at old (60's era and some 70's) pictures. Then came frap hats and hockey helmets, then the Pro-tec. Motorcycle helmets were less forgiving of a poor fit, and much heavier in a hard opening.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #21 September 11, 2002 QuoteI have to wonder why skydivers don't use premium motorcylce helmets or auto racing helmets? This was preceded by: QuoteIt seems that protection is a series of trade offs and that a helmet that is a good choice for one application may not necessarily be good for another. Along with a few other observations that should have made it obvious that the question was rhetorical in nature. I was around when motorcycle helmets were used by skydivers. Want to have some fun? Get a 12 oz boxing glove, then let a trusted friend clobber you on the back of the head. Then put on your $300 high tech composite helmet and ask them to clobber you again with as close to the same force as they can. I know, it is not very scientific and very subjective, but it will be funny as hell. And, just for kicks, if you have a full face helmet, let them lay a shot right on the chin part of the helmet. If you are not in the emergency room yet, try to get a set of the foam rubber protective head gear used for sparring and take the same shots. That may give you some idea how effective the hard shell is at distributing the load over a larger area. There is nothing wrong with always wearing a helmet if you so choose, but if you go that route, then wouldn't it make sense to ensure that the helmet you are wearing is actually the best one for the job?alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
