Important info about legstraps...

[PhillyKev 0]

Learned this the hardway. According one of the senior riggers at our dz, I had misinformation about how to use the elastic band around the leg straps. This loop of elastic is NOT used for securing the excess strap. On the chest strap, its purpose is just to hold the loose end, but on the legs, very different purpose. What he said is that elastic band should be all the way up against the buckle, its purpose on the legs is to prevent your leg straps from sliding and that will only work if it's all the way up against the buckle. This is especially important with stainless hardware as it is more slippery.
I had a hard opening that caused my leg straps to slip and my container riding up on me. The back of my container pinned my head down against my chest. I couldn't even look up at my canopy. I thought I had riser twists pushing my head down, but I was able to reach up and check my risers which were straight. I managed to twist my head so I could check my canopy out of the corner of my eye. I was hanging low and crooked in the harness and when I came in to land ended up drilling myself into the ground from about 15' up. Knocked the wind out of myself, bounced my head (wearing a protec) off the ground, and thought I broke all my ribs. When I was able to take a breath, it turned out I was ok. Just very sore.
Anyway, talking about it that night there were several people who were unaware (actually everyone I talked to) that the elastic on the legs should be all the way up by the buckle. Thought I'd pass that along so noone else has the same problem.
cielos azules y cerveza fría
-Kevin

[billvon 2,400]

>This loop of elastic is NOT used for securing the excess strap.
Interesting. I use it to secure the excess strap. Mick Cottle, who designed the rig I use, stows his excess strap the same way. Every student I've ever jumped with has had their leg straps stowed this way. I never had a problem with it.
I also know a few jumpers who have problems with their leg straps slipping, due to worn hardware/old leg straps. We tried doing as you describe, and also tried rubber bands. The rubber bands seemed to work, but they also got sucked into the hardware making it difficult to take the rig off. It also chewed up the rubber band pretty fast.
Other things that work:
Para-gear used to have springs you could insert into the legstrap friction adapters to increase the friction between the metal and the webbing. We used them back in NY and they seemed to work well.
A friend of mine attached some 1/2" tape (pullup cord material) to the back of his legstrap for added friction and this solved the problem.
Frank up at Square One rubs paraffin (candle wax) on the legstrap to prevent it from slipping, and that seems to work.
Of course, the ultimate source for info on your rig will always be the rig manufacturer.
-bill von

[weid14 0]

you wouldn't have been talking to Kruse would you?

[PhillyKev 0]

No, PJ.
cielos azules y cerveza fría
-Kevin

[weid14 0]

It wasn't today was it??????
A flapping leg strap can come loose a lot easier than one held down with the elastic keepers.... you put that keeper by the adapter and those leg straps will beat you silly in freefall.

[PhillyKev 0]

No, it was on Saturday. On my Wings you tuck the ends of the leg strap into the leg pad anyway to keep it from flapping.
Basically, what he said is that the leg hardware used to be different back in the day but the chest strap was the same and had the elastic for excess strap on the chest. Then when the leg buckles came out with the elastic band everyone just assumed they were for the same purpose while in actuality they're there to stop them from slipping past the elastic.
cielos azules y cerveza fría
-Kevin

[weid14 0]

yup, on all the containers I know about, you can tuck the excess into the leg pad, but (as I've done), if you don't put that keeper all the way down where the strap enters, that excess will come out and flap around (and potentially loosen the leg strap). So if the elastic is used to keep the excess on the chest strap down, and the friction adapter on the chest is the same design as the legs, why wouldn't it be the same on both?

[polarbear 1]

Frankly, I think it is your rigger that is misinformed. It seems to me that he/she is the only one who believes that the elastic keeper should be down at the friction adapter.
I would suggest you talk to the manufacturer of your container and see what they have to say.

[PhillyKev 0]

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So if the elastic is used to keep the excess on the chest strap down, and the friction adapter on the chest is the same design as the legs, why wouldn't it be the same on both?

Because they're not the same design. See the attachment. The design of the leg strap hardware is such that by pulling up on the whole buckle, they'll loosen. The chest strap has that angled center piece so that you have to lift the outside edge to loosen. If you put the elastic against the hardware on the chest strap, that would lift it and allow it to loosen (not good). However with the leg strap, lifting one end will not allow it to loosen and the elastic will keep it from sliding.
I took my rig out, stood on the leg straps and yanked it from the shoulders. When the elastic was below the hardware, the strap loosened until the elastic reached the top, it went a little further but with more effort, and then stopped when the elastic bunched up. When it's at the top to start with, I couldn't loosen it by yanking up on the rig.
cielos azules y cerveza fría
-Kevin

[weid14 0]

Then I would suggest two keepers if you're going to do it that way.... other wise your legs are in for a beating. different designs on the adapters, I agree with that.

[pilotdave 0]

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on all the containers I know about, you can tuck the excess into the leg pad

My excess legstraps arent long enough to stay secure in the legpads. I s-fold the excess and hold it with the elastic keeper. Guess if I was convinced that this isnt a good idea I could add rubber bands, but I have trouble believing those elastic things arent there specifically to hold the excess legstraps.
Dave
http://www.skydivingmovies.com

[Levin 0]

Quote

I took my rig out, stood on the leg straps and yanked it from the shoulders. When the elastic was below the hardware, the strap loosened until the elastic reached the top, it went a little further but with more effort, and then stopped when the elastic bunched up. When it's at the top to start with, I couldn't loosen it by yanking up on the rig.

i just tried this on my freefly friendly power racer with the elastic distal (away from) to the buckle. they didn't budge. i made sure they were even. it sounds to me like your rig is defective and you should send it back to the manufacturer before you get yourself hurt. i also agree that your rigger is misinformed.

[HeatherB 0]

Hi guys,
I believe the most important way to ensure that your legstraps don't slip is to make sure that the friction adapter is lying flat. This sounds obvious, but if you S-fold the excess up by the adapter instead of folding it down into the legpad, it may cause the adapter to not be fully closed (lying flat), which of could lead to some slipping. If you S-fold the excess and secure it with the elastic, be sure that you are still allowing the adapter to lay flat and closed.
I talked to Henri and our riggers about how they do their legstraps. Turns out, we all fold any excess down into the legpads and keep the elastic somewhere in the middle of the visible legstrap, not up by the adapter, and none of us have had problems. Rarely do we see people put the elastic up by the adapter. But yes, it could actually help prevent slipping caused by an adapter that is not lying flat.
(I'm not attempting to speak for any other manufacturers, just expressing our own thoughts on the matter) Kevin, if you have problems with the straps slipping even when the adapter is lying flat and you have your excess stowed away in the legpads, let me know. We tested what you did with a demo Wings here and it didn't slip at all, even when the elastic was not up by the adapter.
Hope this makes sense to everyone Blue Skies,
Heather
http://www.skydivewings.com

[riggerrob 558]

Sounds like you guys are trying to use elastics to compensate for shoddy friction adapters.
A good friction adapter will hold the strap without any elastic.
We encountered this problem a few times when I worked at Rigging Innovations. If a customer send back a harness with complaints of slipping leg straps, it was usually caused by friction adapters that were too smooth. This happens when the hardware manufacturers don't clean their dies often enough. The short term/field solution is to sew some pile Velcro on the leg straps so it will catch in the teeth of the friction adapter. As soon as the rig got to the factory, we replaced slippery friction adapters for free.