larrylemur 0 #1 February 17, 2012 I am considering trying to become a student skydiver this summer through a nearby DZ. I did a tandem at the same DZ a couple of years ago. On the day of the jump it looked like it was going to rain so they kind of rushed us onto the plane. When we were in the air the Tandem Master asked if we had done a ground instruction session, but no one had done this with us. He gave us some quick instructions in the plane and we did the jump. It all went pretty smoothly, but now that I have researched skydiving a bit more it seems like this was not following protocol. I am wondering if this would be considered a big safety red flag, or if it isn't really so bad. I am a bit worried, is the fact that I still did this jump an indicator that I might not have the safety mindset required for skydiving? The DZ seemed pretty safe and I felt very secure with the TM since he seemed very experienced. However, not really knowing anything about skydiving, I pretty much just followed what they told me to do. I realize as a student safety will be very much my responsibility so I wanted to try and get some feedback on this. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
holie 0 #2 February 17, 2012 Welcome to the real world . Not everybody will agree - but everything they would have told you at the ground, you would have forgotten in the door It's nice to be prepared. But the TM did his Job in the plane you were prepared and in good hands with that TM. Go for it! As you asked here shows you're head up and you will ask your instructors if neccesary. Have fun. PS: As we say in german "It will not be eaten as hot as it is cooked" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #3 February 17, 2012 If the weather is turning, there's a choice between rushing the tandempassengers a bit, or not jumping at all (or maybe hours later). I am talking about tandem passengers here, not tandem students who are supposed to pull the ripcord, read an alti etc, and/or are doing tandemjumps as part of a skydiving course. Opinions may vary here, but I'm OK with rushing things a bit for passengers, especially if there's no video (I like to capture a bit of the briefing on tape). Even with video, we make it work. It's really no big deal to do the briefing inside the plane on occasion, even though not optimal. For sure no red safety flag in my book. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 102 #4 February 17, 2012 Your TM was looking after himself, so by default he was looking after you too. The couple of things you really needed to do would have been the instructions he gave you in the plane. When you fly in an aircraft you are not bolted to the pilot as you are on a Tandem. Your solo course will prepare you to look after yourself.... Go for it....My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djmarvin 2 #5 February 17, 2012 Quote Not everybody will agree - but everything they would have told you at the ground, you would have forgotten in the door In my few thousand tandems I will disagree with this statement! I have found over the years that more people remember more information than most people/Instructors give them credit for. If an Instructor PROPERLY trains a student, that student will more likely remember the key points of their training. It is with this type of familiarity that we bring the most positive experiences to our students, allowing them a true glimpse into our world of skydiving. You never know which "I am only doing this once" student will turn into a skydiver for the rest of their life. If we train each one properly they are more likely to perform better, enjoy their experience more, and return to the sky to become a licensed jumper. DJ Marvin AFF I/E, Coach/E, USPA/UPT Tandem I/E http://www.theratingscenter.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djmarvin 2 #6 February 17, 2012 I would consider the lack of ground training to rush on a load to beat the weather as an indicator but not definitive. Head back out to the DZ and watch for a few hours or even the day. You will get to see what normally goes on. This will also give you a chance to get to know some of the other jumpers and see the community at play. DJ Marvin AFF I/E, Coach/E, USPA/UPT Tandem I/E http://www.theratingscenter.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #7 February 17, 2012 QuoteI am considering trying to become a student skydiver this summer through a nearby DZ. However, not really knowing anything about skydiving, I pretty much just followed what they told me to do. Which is what you will be doing when you start your solo training. Solo training is a totally different world from tandem. Rest assured, you will NOT be getting on a plane as a solo student without complete ground training beforehand...weather or no weather..My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #8 February 17, 2012 QuoteRest assured, you will NOT be getting on a plane as a solo student without complete ground training beforehand...weather or no weather.. LMFAO!!!! You funny man.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #9 February 17, 2012 Instructors are trained to expect (and occasionally see) students that don't remember anything, and do just what they shouldn't. Many DZ's and instructors are trying to both keep their planes running as much as possible (for practical and financial reasons) and also want to keep your interest now that you finally got the nerve up to get this far. Weather holds are very disappointing to new jumpers. That having been said, I also have seen tandem operations that feel this is an acceptable level of training for passengers on a regular basis. For myself, I don't care for the joy-ride passenger take on Tandem. I prefer to approach each tandem customer as a student. They should be trained as a first jump student and that includes ground training, altimeter use, canopy flight (to include landing) and a post jump debrief with the instructor. This is not how to turn the most tandems in a day, but I believe it is the way to turn the most tandems into returning students of our sport. (As you might imagine, I am not in favor of tandem-mills.) Was this DZ doing you a favor, or just trying to turn out as many no mater the cost... not sure. I would follow the recommendation to hang out there and see how their operations function on a more normal day. Just my $.02 JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #10 February 17, 2012 a lot of times, lots of Ti will agree that less you teach em the better. Having said that, there is 15 min ride up., you can cover most of the basics in 15 min.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #11 February 17, 2012 Quote a lot of times, lots of Ti will agree that less you teach em the better. Having said that, there is 15 min ride up., you can cover most of the basics in 15 min. Maybe, but you'd also have to agree that it would not be "Best Practice". edited to add... Point at hand, the OP left this DZ wondering if he may have been shorted? Do you really want your customers going away with that impression? Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 3 #12 February 17, 2012 When my daughter did a tandem, they showed the students an okay video. But if it were up to me, I would show a video ( slowed down ) with narration and telling the students to not a). stick their legs out front in freefall b). dont be reaching back at any time but especially under canopy. I have seen enough scary videos... if I were a TM I would emphasize a few points such as these before the jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtiflyer 0 #13 February 17, 2012 QuoteWhen my daughter did a tandem, they showed the students an okay video. But if it were up to me, I would show a video ( slowed down ) with narration and telling the students to not a). stick their legs out front in freefall b). don't be reaching back at any time but especially under canopy. I have seen enough scary videos... if I were a TM I would emphasize a few points such as these before the jump. As any teacher will tell you, you never tell anybody what NOT to do (because that is exactly what they will do). If you only teach them what to do then there will be no confusion as to what their responsibilities are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #14 February 17, 2012 Quote Quote Rest assured, you will NOT be getting on a plane as a solo student without complete ground training beforehand...weather or no weather.. LMFAO!!!! You funny man.... Here all week. Don't forget to tip your waiter. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #15 February 18, 2012 Quote Quote a lot of times, lots of Ti will agree that less you teach em the better. Having said that, there is 15 min ride up., you can cover most of the basics in 15 min. Maybe, but you'd also have to agree that it would not be "Best Practice". edited to add... Point at hand, the OP left this DZ wondering if he may have been shorted? Do you really want your customers going away with that impression? And what about if something were to go south and the 'passenger' gets a bit dented...gee the guys before & after got 'more training'.... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #16 February 18, 2012 Quote Having said that, there is 15 min ride up., you can cover everything 3 times over in 15 min. FIFY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
