CheshireCat 0 #1 July 21, 2001 Hello guys, hope you can help me on this one. I am a newbie, just finished IAD course. Still jumping with DZ equipment. Today it was my 3rd solo from 12,000ft, pulled stable on 3,500.Chute is open, and it is square. Good. The slider looks strange (twisted somehow) but it is above my head and not stuck in the middle. Going for brakes. No brakes on front rises. It is on rear. Then I realize that rises are twisted. Lines are perfect, chute is square and stable. Should I touch the brakes? My decision was yes, so I took it and tried to steer. Feels like I can steer it. The view of twisted rises is very disturbing but I did not saw any reason to start the emergency procedures. Landed nice and softly. I took the gear to one of instructors in DZ, he said it was packing mistake - the rig was twisted and the rises were misplaced. No further comments were made. Is it a malfunction at all? I do not have enough experience to decide how bad is this and how to handle such situation in future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingMarc 0 #2 July 21, 2001 Wow, that's an odd situation. But in my also inexperienced(25 jumps) opinion, you did the right thing--you saw that your canopy was square, determined that it was safe to land, and made it down safely. The fact that you landed safely is the most important part.Something just struck me as really scary... I'm not totally sure what your situation was, but if your risers were twisted, were your 3-rings clear? I just had a mental image of deciding to cut away, and only one side releases... ::shiver::Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phastasphuk 0 #3 July 22, 2001 Sounds to me that you handled that situation good.You looked at the canopy-looks fine, you cleared the brakes-they cleared, you tried some slow nice turns and maybe to brake a little bit(at altitude I hope!)-still flies nicely, you landed ok! That's exactly what I would have done in your situation.You make a decision in the air, can I land this thing?, if you know you can, land it. If you're not sure or say no to that question, chop it and go for reserve ride.This is what I would have done in that situation, maybe others have different opinions...chrisHow would you like too stick with meHow much do you love to freefall Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JumpHog 0 #4 July 22, 2001 I had almost the exact same thing happen to me today, but it was completetly my fault. I had swapped the risers on my rig during the week (and I was certain I put it back together correctly). Anyways, I was too lazy to take the canopy out of the bag to make sure (I have probably swapped canopies or risers on this rig a dozen times before with no problem). On the way to altitude on the first jump this morning, I even jokingly mentioned to the guy I was jumping with that "I hope I hooked this back up correctly." Well, that remark turned out to be more than a joke. Although I was 99% confident that I had reassembled it correctly, we had broken off early, so I decided to dump at 4000. Looking up during opening, I realised that something was definately not right. My left risers appeared to be twisted. I checked my altitude and I was at about 3,000, so I decided to do a controlability check. Did a couple of practice flares and left and right toggle turns (the left toggle was harder to pull during turns and flaring). After trying a few more flares, I decided to stick with it (now at 2000 ft). Just to be on the safe side, I steered to the ground using my rear risers (I was worried that if I used my toggle for a turn, it had the possibility to stick like that and continue to spiral). As I was grabbing my rear risers I realised that the rear riser on the left side was actually my front riser (whoops). I set up on a long final and prepared to PLF. The flare required some extra muscle on the left side (I flared with the toggles), but it was a soft stand-up landing. After landing, I took my rig to my rigger to see if she could fix the problem. After laughing a bit about the way I had reassembled it, we determined that I accidentally reconnected the front lines to the rear riser and vice-versa. I had a few people give me some crap that I should have cut it away and not landed it like that at that high of a loading (1.7). In my opinion, if it is stable, steerable and flarable, then there is no reason to chop it. Although, if I had dumped at my usual altitude, I wouldn't have taken the time to play around with it and would have chopped it immediately. Anyways, the lessons to be learned here is to take the extra time to double check your work if you make any changes to your rig (even if you're 99% sure you did it correctly). That other 1% almost costed me my first reserve ride. Well, I just thought I'd shard this with you all.Blue Skies,Paul Eriksmoen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #5 July 22, 2001 Quote The slider looks strange (twisted somehow) but it is above my head and not stuck in the middle. Going for brakes. No brakes on front rises. It is on rear. Then I realize that rises are twisted. I'm having a hard time picturing exactly what you're saying you saw - but I think you probably had a step-through.. That happens when the canopy is passed through the risers, or the rig passed through the risers.. It can happen many ways - but a line continuity check while packing would have immediately made it very obvious.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad 0 #7 July 22, 2001 Breaks should be on rear risers, not on front !!! Front risers might have dive loops, but no toggles :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CheshireCat 0 #8 July 22, 2001 So, can it be dangerous? Can you think about any scenario then this mistake prevents the chute from opening properly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #9 July 22, 2001 Quote So, can it be dangerous? Can you think about any scenario then this mistake prevents the chute from opening properly? Many canopies will fly fine with a step through.. If you do a control check, and it passes, it's up to you whether you want to land it or not.. Some canopies - mostly high performance ellipticals - will have a nasty reaction to a step through.. I have seen a step through on a Stilleto that turned real nasty real fast.. I don't think that a step through would prevent a canopy from OPENING - but it can surely affect the way it flies once it is open.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #10 July 23, 2001 QuoteNo brakes on front rises. It is on rear.I guess I have a malfunction every jump, because my toggles are always stowed on my rear risers. I'm pretty sure that's where they are supposed to be. cielos azules y cerveza fría-Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jayhfx 0 #11 July 23, 2001 I've seen that before as well. We determined it was a step-through so I guess thats a packing mistake. I think ya did great.peace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ClayFowler 0 #12 July 23, 2001 OK....OK.....dont bash the Cherry too hard for not knowing where the brakes are. Sounds like a step through to me. I have seen people land....pretty confused and a little scared after them but the canopy flew fine so......I always pack my own main..always. If it has been in a bag for a week or two, I repack it, always. In the military I had to jump chutes packed by someone else almost every time. Probably some 18 yr old punk private that was thinking about how to get in that girl at the mall's pants. I didnt like it much and I now enjoy knowing whats in the bag. Just Clay's philosophy. BTW....68 jumps and no mals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yet............................ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CheshireCat 0 #13 July 23, 2001 True, the toggles are supposed to be on the rear rises. I was VERY confused after the landing. What bothers me is the reply from DZ instructors - "Yes, it is a packing mistake. You've managed to land and everything is OK". Yes, I am alive, but it was my 10th jump and I want to know EVERYTHING about things that can go wrong, how bad is this and how to deal with it. Thank you all for providing the information which is so important to me at this stage :)Let's summarize some points:1) Step-through is a minor malfunction caused by packing.2) On huge canopy I use at this stage (270+) it is probably not a big deal. If chute opens square, stable and I can steer it - there is no way something will go wrong later. 3) It can cause problems on smaller canopy (how small?)4) Always pack my own main (When I'll have one)5) Meanwhile - kick packer's ass then it happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #14 July 24, 2001 Quote1) Step-through is a minor malfunction caused by packing.these are not nececarily minor mals. they can twist up your risers and get ya spinning on smaller and heavier weighted chutes. and could twist your risers enough to make a cutaway very hard. no mal IMHO should be taken lightly. MarcA-38578 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ClayFowler 0 #15 July 24, 2001 Clay's Collegiate edition Dictionary1. Minor Malfunction(N)- A malfunction which allows the occupant/s of a parachute to walk away from the landing.2. Major Malfunction(N)- A malfunction that results in a canopy which will kill,maim, or damage the right wrist (for single males) as to render it unusable if a landing is attempted. I like to keep things simple...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phastasphuk 0 #16 July 24, 2001 Quoteor damage the right wrist (for single males) as to render it unusable I like to use the left one, gives a little feminine touch to it chrisHow would you like too stick with meHow much do you love to freefall Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #17 July 25, 2001 Quote 1) Step-through is a minor malfunction caused by packing. Caused by packing? Yes. Minor? No. I would call line twists a minor malfunction(assuming you can get out of 'em and the canopy is flying ok) - but not a step through..Quote 2) On huge canopy I use at this stage (270+) it is probably not a big deal. If chute opens square, stable and I can steer it - there is no way something will go wrong later. Not so.. Just because it flies fine initially doesn't mean it will stay that way.. How will it react when you get into turbulence? Will it flare correctly? You may do a test flare - but how can you tell if you really arrest your descent when you're 1500ft up?Quote 3) It can cause problems on smaller canopy (how small?) Not necessarily small canopies.. It could cause a problem on a Stilleto 190 loaded at .9.. It could cause a problem on a Manta 230 loaded at .7.. One Sabre 170 may fly fine with a step through - another may not.. Whether or not the canopy is in proper trim will affect the way it flies.. You never know til it happens..Quote 4) Always pack my own main (When I'll have one)5) Meanwhile - kick packer's ass then it happens. Good call on both parts.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OmriMon 0 #18 July 25, 2001 U can't blame the packer when YOU r doing the sausage...he can't see it when he is bagging it for u...Free Skies,Omri A-38593 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #19 July 26, 2001 QuoteU can't blame the packer when YOU r doing the sausage...he can't see it when he is bagging it for u...Sorry Omri but I'm going to have to disagree on this one. If someone is packing my chute and I have a Mal due to a packing error which in this case was a packing error then the packer is the only one to blame. It is the packers responcibility to make sure he/she sees everything!!!! and goes over everything to insure nice proper deployment. Now yes shit will happen and accidents do occur but give me a better reason than "sorry dude....didnt see that!!!"jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #21 July 27, 2001 Quote I just can't understand how someone can miss a stepthrough. Easy - by not doing a line check.. How many times have you seen people pack without doing a line check? I've seen it from jumpers packing their own rigs, and from packers..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
