Fight or Flight and Hick's Law

[AggieDave 6]

I realize that quite a few of you reading this will know this information already and are already teaching in such a manner due to an understanding of how the mind and body works. However, if someone reads this for the first time and it helps them become an instructor or a coach, then I feel like it was worth my time.



This is something that every instructor should consider when teaching students. Although the IRM covers the concept in a vague sense, I believe an understanding of how and why will help us as instructors understand more completely.

Fight or Flight.

Sure, we've all heard about it, but what are the actual physiological reactions that comprise our basic human response?

First of all breathing quickens and becomes more shallow. This is an attempt for our body to get more oxygen into the blood stream as quickly as possible. You loose fine motor skills. What does that mean? An example would be this, try writing a sentence on paper with a pen after a good life scare. You physically won't be able to. The blood flow is diverted from the extremties of the body and kept to the center and to the major muscle groups. Why? Your body is reacting to fight its way out of a life or death situation OR its preparing to run, climb, jump and crawl as fast and as hard as it can to get away. What goes with it? Well, the same reactions we see with our students. They dont' hear us, they don't see us and they can't feel their handles. That's due to the body redirecting the blood flow as well as concentrating the nerves on the major muscle groups. Vision narrows, hearing is degraded or lost, and feeling goes away.

How many students have you seen slame their hand on the step of a 182 on exit and not know it? They'll even deny it happened once you get on the ground. Of course the next day their hand is blue and purple from the bruise, but they don't remember it. That's apart of the response. Its to help us fight or flee.


Ok, how does that apply to instruction? Well, we need to discuss Hick's Law first.

Hick's law Hick’s Law, started out as a paper written in 1952 and simply set up an equation that states the mind takes time to decide between options. Simplified is that the more options of response someone has, the longer the response will take. This is amplified in a fight or flight scenerio.

So the logical recourse to combat this law would be to simplify the responses until a certain number of responses can be learned to the point of reactionary training.

The main point in student skydiving I see this applying is how students are taught malfunctions. Some schools teach a simple 1 step approach to malfunctions: Is it there? Is it square Is it steerable. If you answer no and its a malfunction, not a nusiance, then look grab, look grab, peel pull, peel pull.

This is not, "Ok, its there, but its a line over involving the right brake line, so I'll try pumping the toggles hard to get it to clear," or "ok, I have a PC in tow, so I can either go straight to my reserve or pull my cutaway and go straight to my reserve." Its "I have a malfunction, pull right, pull left."

Of course, as the skydiver becomes conditioned to the environment, the body relaxes and is able to think quicker and more clearly. An understanding of malfunctions and other possible reactions also become apparent. So skydivers take on more complex reaction trees, but this doesn't slow down the reaction.

Reason being is that further research in the 1990s on Hick's Law shows that the brain will make short cuts to cut through to certain responses in certain scenerios. What this means is that the more often our brains process information, the more quickly it can jump to the correct conclusion.

That makes sense if you apply it to every day life. Whats 2x2=? When you were 8yrs old I bet that took 10 times as long. You'll be able to answer 4 if you're drunk, tired, just waking or scared out of your mind. Your brain has created the correct pathways to skip over all the other options and go straight to that option.

So, how do we teach to those shortcuts? Starting with the basics. Over and over and over and over again. Mastering the basics presents the ability for our brain to move further, faster.

Where is this the most important in skydiving today? Canopy flight. A while back I sat down and listed every single thing that I have to process to make a 270deg approach into a swoop course. It was staggering the amount of information and decisions that have to be made nearly simultaniously. That's when I started to think about Hick's Law. Unfortunately, too many in this sport jump past the part about making all the basics and other variables nearly second nature.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[tdog 0]

Awesome work...

I learned of Hick's law a while back on this site...

Because of that, when I teach malfunctions now - I take Hicks law under consideration...

So, my question for you - since you mentioned canopy flight...

Students get hurt these days under canopy by low panic turns.

I have my theories, and I hate when others (instructors too) put so much pressure on "land into the wind" and "follow the first down".... The pressure should be on the SIM landing priorities, "Wings Level, Obstacle Free, Flare, PLF". I teach why landing into the wind is desirable, and why following the first down is desirable, but my students know they are not on the priority list once it is two low to turn into the wind.

So, Aggie, how can we use Hick's law to train students to not panic turn. Or other teaching methods/laws?

(For the record, I learned the way Brian Germain talks about... Pain... I turned my paraglider, long before I skydived, into a dive to avoid something soft. It hurt bad, no hospital, but a limp and bruises for a long time.)

[feuergnom 22]

nice post!

i'll have to add one thing:

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First of all breathing quickens and becomes more shallow. This is an attempt for our body to get more oxygen into the blood stream as quickly as possible.

if you are at 13 grand this normal bodily reaction will contribute to getting hypoxic - so there is no way the body is getting the oxygen it wants and your brain is really hungry for this stuff when under stress...

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[AggieDave 6]

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So, Aggie, how can we use Hick's law to train students to not panic turn. Or other teaching methods/laws?

Get a copy of the areal picture of your landing area and surrounding parts of the DZ and laminate it. Use dry erase markers and actually physically draw the landing pattern. I also like to teach what Scott Miller teaches about a holding area. However, I use a cone shape instead of a box. I see the student thinking about the holding area and following the cone shape to the 1000' mark, getting "funneled" into their landing pattern and not having to worry about it as much.

If you fully plan your landing pattern and you set limits on where to fly under canopy to keep your student from flying too far away, then you'll see less low turns, since they'll be flying the pattern that they planned and still landing into the wind. Obviously it helps if they are the ones drawing it with your input. It also helps if the experienced people at your DZ land in a consistant direction on each load (everyone the same direction, whichever that may be) and it also helps greatly if people at your DZ actually fly a landing pattern. Yes, the swoopers too. If those don't happen, then you have an up hill battle.

So that removes many of the options and many of the variables for a landing pattern. That means a student is able to focus on the important stuff, what they're worried about. When to flare and how to land accuractely. The landing pattern and sticking to it will create accuracry. If the student overshoots by 10ft, slide the entire landing pattern back 10ft, assuming they flew the landing pattern. Otherwise, who knows how much to slide anything around. It will leave the student to worry about the flare point and speed.


My DZ changed how we teach canopy control after the first time we, the instructors, sat through Scott Miller's course. We changed it to basically how he teaches it, we use the above method as well. Its funny to hear our former students, who now have 100-500 jumps, come back from another DZ or from a boogie. They all tend to have one complaint, "Man, no one lands with a landing pattern over there, I didn't know which way they were going, so I just held in brakes in the holding area (above 1000') and let the traffic clear so I could land safely."

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[tdog 0]

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Get a copy of the areal picture of your landing area and surrounding parts of the DZ and laminate it.

I took a 1X2 piece of Masonite and put the photos between the Masonite and some Plexiglas - and used gaff tape around the edges to frame it. Durable and cheap... Enough so every two people in a class have one to draw on. I stole this design from Bram (www.skydiveratings.com) and cost me $20 for 4, including the Costco blowups of the photos I took. (Ok, $23 for that slot/high pull, but another person paid me for that since we needed photos for a production we did.)

You can take this "clipboard like" photo and hold it out and have people draw on them. I like it better than the laminate.

You have good points... And, I have done most of those things myself in teaching...

I am more worried about the 25+ jump person who all of a sudden experiences their first "oh shit, there is a fence!" (yes they screwed up higher)... Ideas to get the brake/flat turn as the "flight or fight" response instead of a toggle whip dive. Or the "I am landing down wind, suck it up and PLF" instead of the carving turn into the ground...

These moments of panic have hurt many (not many at home, but I see it in the incidents forum all the time.)

[AggieDave 6]

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I am more worried about the 25+ jump person who all of a sudden experiences their first "oh shit, there is a fence!" (yes they screwed up higher)... Ideas to get the brake/flat turn as the "flight or fight" response instead of a toggle whip dive. Or the "I am landing down wind, suck it up and PLF" instead of the carving turn into the ground...

That's a valid concern. Life saving maneuvers like flat turns are referenced in the A-license progression, just not as well as many think they should. There's nothing wrong with adding that to a dive flow for someone to do under canopy. Then repetition or as I like to tell my students "wash, rinse, repeat."

I really believe that part of the problem is learning how to create and fly a proper landing pattern. If they have their holding area and they have their landing pattern, they can look and see the that they're not going to make it to their 1000' mark in time since they're WELL outside of the holding area. So the student choose to land off when they're at 2,500' and pick a good spot to go land. Then they can just move their landing pattern over to that spot.

Obviously that's the perfect world, hopefully they'll respond in the same manner.

I think we got the laminated photo about the time the Bram was around too...I can't remember, but I'm more then sure he had some influence. The guy is an incredible instructor.


This sort of dialogue is why I started this thread. Hopefully someone else will have some good ideas to contribute as well. That will help me learn new instructional techniques, which is what I'm really after.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Jumpah 0]

One of our experienced jumpers recently organized a trip in the DZ van with a bunch of us new people for a walking tour of the outs. We walked the landing areas and saw what it was like. He pointed out the various obstacles, suggested landing patterns, etc. I can't say for sure whether this has helped anyone directly yet, but I'm sure it made people more comfortable with the idea of landing out, so I think it will be less stressful when it eventually does happen to each of them.

I doubt this is appropriate for first jump students, but at some point a DZ should consider adding this into the training for new skydivers...at least for the ones that haven't landed out.

[livendive 8]

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So, Aggie, how can we use Hick's law to train students to not panic turn. Or other teaching methods/laws?

In a similar manner to EPs...make it simple. I teach that the proper response to any external surprise close to the ground is "First - slow things down...flare". Once they've done that, they can then decide whether to do a braked turn, land in brakes & PLF, or, if altitude permits, let the toggles back up and proceed with a normal landing once the hazard is abated. If they are too close to the ground to make any of these decisions before landing, well at least the impact will be softer than it would have otherwise been. This method does two things: 1-makes the initial decision tree very simple so that there is a quick response (and it's a better response than a panic turn) and 2-provides additional time to consider a more complex decision tree.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[2fat2fly 0]

I also like to teach what Scott Miller teaches about a holding area.

Way back when at Skydive Monroe I rember my instructors going over my "playground" area with me as part of my pattern, it really helped having that intermediate target to fly to without having to try to arrive at a certain altitude.

I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried

[GreenMachine 0]

Good thread AggieDave, thanks.

When I teach the section of ground school dealing with malfunctions I also find they retain the data more if it is in simple wording. My usual example is I will point to one of the students and ask them in a quick loud voice: "What do you do if you catch on fire?!" 9 times out 10 I hear a quick reply of "Stop Drop & Roll".

I then use that example to emphasize the idea that each action should have one word associated with it and said out loud each time you practice, kind of like the 'Arch, Reach, Pull' sequence.

As for the breathing response to adrenaline, I had always thought the shallowness came from involuntary muscle constriction in the chest. Because honestly shallow, quick breathing is inefficient.

During my first 100 skydives I used slow, deep breathing to calm down enough to get out of the plane. I later noticed our senior tandem master do it with passengers and I now do it with mine. Not only does it provide extra oxygen and calm the mind, but it also helps to set the stage for the experience.

Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM

[pchapman 261]

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I have my theories, and I hate when others (instructors too) put so much pressure on "land into the wind" and "follow the first down".... The pressure should be on the SIM landing priorities, "Wings Level, Obstacle Free, Flare, PLF".

A good part of the problem, in my opinion, that as experienced jumpers we may know things fairly 'instinctively' (through experience) but haven't thought through how to teach it.

So the student gets told a bunch of rules but not how they interrelate, and which take priority over others. All bad in terms of Hick's Law. So students end up with just a list of rules, to land into wind, land in the direction others are landing, don't land in a turn, and don't hit obstacles. Sometimes they're told to "always" do something, or to "try to" do something, or "you should" do something, without really understanding why or how important these things are. Occasionally students do something that's a bit hazardous because they were more frightened of their instructor than the ground -- "But I was told to always..."

Another example of muddled instruction is the bit about "pull, pull at the right altitude, pull stable". That may be fine for discussions on the ground but the logic can be a bit confusing to work through, and it doesn't provide a clear decision tree for someone to work with (at least in my mind!).

[tdog 0]

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Another example of muddled instruction is the bit about "pull, pull at the right altitude, pull stable". That may be fine for discussions on the ground but the logic can be a bit confusing to work through, and it doesn't provide a clear decision tree for someone to work with (at least in my mind!).

So how would you teach the pull priorities...

I/We use these priorities... But I tell the students in the classroom what it means... Then I ask them questions.

"You are on your back spinning fast - and it is pull time. What do you do?"

If someone in the class does NOT ask, "but how will the parachute open if you are on your back?" then they have not thought it thru and don't have the picture and I keep talking about it until they do.

Do you think the pull priorities should be eliminated, and something similar that paints a better picture, like "Pull when you are supposed to regardless of body position, and if you don't, pull as soon as you realize you should."

Anyway, back to your thoughts - how do you teach the concept of pulling on time?

[AFFI 0]

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So how would you teach the pull priorities...

I ask them questions.

"You are on your back spinning fast - and it is pull time. What do you do?"


how do you teach the concept of pulling on time?

Here is a very effective method, at least it is for me,

I do not use the word “Pull” with students. It might sound stupid, but we don’t pull ripcords anymore, we initiate the main deployment by “Throwing” the hackey (PC) out and into the Relative Wind. I do not like students to pull the PC out and hold it, not even for a second-it is dangerous to do so. Since I started watching my semantics here and using the word throw and emphasizing that, I have had a noticeable percentage of students not hold the PC.


Deploy, Deploy at the correct Altitude, Deploy Stable if able? Something like that.
Students where I work have to take a short pop quiz before each instructional jump and deploying at the correct altitude is emphasized on those pop quizzes through the course intermittently. How I personally began to teach it with the very best effectiveness is to quickly go through the drill with them about deploying on time regardless of body position, a short Q&A if you will. Most of the time, thanks to the pop quizzes reinforcement they already know to deploy on their back if that is their body position at deployment time or if they are on their own on non-release dives etcetera.

At the very end of the Q&A about deployment time I say something like:
“If you don’t deploy on time, don’t expect me to do it for you. We are all big boys and girls here so you should be able to deploy when you are supposed to, cuz I don’t open peoples parachutes for them and I don’t skydive below 2500 feet (hard deck reinforcement), so if you see my parachute open, that means you got around 12 seconds left, you better do something quick!”

Of course I tell them at some point before the jump that I will in fact deploy for them if they aint gonna do it (interject the "I aint Superman speach") and after a student has worked with me more than once they are used to my banter and I will tell them that I aint there to deploy for them and they know I am only kidding BUT since I started using this technique 4 years ago I have HAD to deploy for only 2 students! 1 was at 10k because we were ape shit out of control and I needed to stop the skydive and 1 because of a loss of altitude awareness down low. So in my opinion, great results.

“The Courtesy Pull”:
When I first started, an experienced instructor told me that if they have a student that was not really paying attention at 5600 feet, they would give them a “courtesy pull”, call them on it during the debrief and then that person would never be lackadaisical at deployment time again. I have found that this works well also.


Bottom line I think is repetitive reinforcement – over and over and over again…



And over...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[AFFI 0]

"over and over and over "

Sounds like some student jumps eh?

Freefly the top half and bellyfly the bottom half!


-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[pchapman 261]

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So how would you teach the pull priorities...

Tdog, your ideas sound fine. The pull/pull altitude/pull stable concept is still OK for discussion on the ground, but students should walk away with something clearer in their minds to use in the air -- something about pulling in any case if pull altitude is reached. Then the next rule can be about stability -- only if one is sure one has extra altitude (and still checks one's alti), should one try to fix a stability problem. The consequences of pulling low vs. pulling unstable would be compared.

I don't myself have any perfect phrasing worked out, and haven't had to teach that stuff specifically.