Student radios - advice sought

[Simba 0]

To date our DZ has been assisting students to land with visual guides only (brightly coloured paddles used on the 'mirror image' basis.)

We are now contemplating a switch to radios.

As with any change, we have those that are for and those that are against. We need to do some research as part of the decision-making exercise.

It is obvious that there will be some best practice processes and protocols to observe using radios. Any of you guys have a document of SOPs assoc with this student aid?

Your feedback and/or comments will be most appreciated.

Thks
S

[riggerrob 562]

Motorola, one-way receivers are the most popular/reliable. They use frequencies that used to be fashionable with trucking and construction companies. Most North American DZs stuff them in pockets on chest straps.
Leave one receiver running in manifest, so they can monitor operations, know when to call for ambulances, etc.
The instructor uses a Motorola, two-way, hand-held radio so he can walk around the landing field.
We test them while students walk out to the airplane.
"Student number one, if you can hear me raise your left foot."
JM tests radio as part of his usual gear checks.
I usually wait 30 seconds after opening and watch student do his own control checks.
"Student number one, make a left turn and face the target."
"Good. Stop turning. Hands all the way up."
"Student number one, we are going to practice the landing. To practice the landing start with your hands all the way up, feet and knees together, eyes on the horizon, wait, wait, flare, flare, flare. Good, ease your hands back up. Play around over the target."
If they are too timid with toggles ...
"Student number one, pull your left steering toggle down to your hip and see how fast that parachute will turn. Left turn, left turn, left turn, left turn, stop. Both hands all the way up."
At about 800, we start them flying a standard, rectangular landing pattern including down-wind, base leg and final approach.
"Student number one, look at the flags, only small turns now. Small left turn. Stop. Hands up. Feet and knees together, hands all the way up, eyes on the horizon, feet and knees together, hands up, wait, wait, wait, flare, flare, flare. Stand up, stand up. Congrats on your first skydive. Now walk around to the down-wind side of your parachute."
"Good afternoon student number two. If you can hear me make a left turn and face the target."
"Student number one, please pick up your pilot chute."
etc.
Some times he helps students daisy-chin lines, but sometimes he is too busy talking down the next student.

Junior radio instructors should ask the pilot to do 3 or 4 minute turn-arounds so that they only have to talk to one student at a time.
After a few years practice, they will get good enough to can talk to 3 or 4 students simultaneously.

For PFF, we leave the transmitter on the edge of the bowl, or edge of the swoop land (instructor's preference). Since the student already has two or three canopy rides by this point, we only need to talk them through the landing pattern.
Our ground school is so thorough, that by the time students have 5 or 6 jumps, they are off radio.

At the end of the day, remember to leave all the radios on the re-charger.

[bch7773 0]

we use radios at my DZ and it works fine. The only time we've had a problem is when a student had a cutaway and the reserve risers knocked his radio off his helmet. He did a nice landing by himself though.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Simba 0]

Thks, nice feedback.

When you refer to (eg) 'student # 2', how do you ensure that the student knows that he/she is #2 without any chance of error?

S

[obelixtim 105]

You talk way too much on your radio....a particular problem if your students are drawn from different countries or their ears have popped....its real easy for students to get confused......The least amount you have to say is the best.....

The first point of my training is that all first jumpers are trained to open, fly, and land the canopy as if they have no radio at all...then if the radio doesn´t work for whatever reason its not a problem..if it does its a bonus....it involves a reasonably simple bit of canopy control training....I tell them they'll have a radio but its important they can do the job without one....in case it doesn't work (in fact they are reliable now but weren't always so).


A vocab of about 10 - 15 words total,are all that is necessary, and leaves little room for misinterpretation....thus making it safer.....If you brief your students beforehand as to what they are going to hear then you need say very little.....for example..."Left 90" means a left turn of 90 degrees...."left 360" is a 360 left turn.....simple....My radio talk is as follows...

"Fred".....(I always use names....I know what colour canopy each student is on if there is a change in jump order in the plane)....

"Fred, good canopy...360 left".....if he follows I know he can hear me.....(this is after he has done his checks and released brakes)....

"Fred have some fun"...(he is allowed to have a play around with his toggles).

During the flight I leave him alone if he is doing OK...he´s actually working his way back towards the DZ....a point on the ground where I want him to be at 1000 feet AGL.....but if I have to say anything it´ll be..."Fred...straight ahead, or Fred 90 right, straight ahead.....or Fred....go to 500 foot point" (this is a pre arranged point on the ground where I want them to be at 500 feet, turning into wind).....

At 1000 feet its "Fred, no more playing, go to 500 foot point".....

At 500 feet (or if they are where I can land them safely, its) "Fred turn into wind......toggles up".......then as they come in to land.....its.... "toggles up.....up ...up......and down down down"............

In the event of a mal on opening its quite simple "Fred, you have a problem...Look... Grab....Pull...." (SOS system).

I've had students land perfectly safely with no radio talk at all.....90% of my students are off radio by jump number 4.....They enjoy being free of it, and their self confidence develops faster.....Its a lot less hassle for me as well......and it gives them time under canopy to get their brains working without someone ranting on in their ear all the time....

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

The least amount you have to say is the best.....

I have to agree 100% on that one.

After being assisted by me , as little as possible, on landing patterns and wind directions on the first 2 tandems they do in my course, they do an excellent job when flying under their own canopy, unassisted.

Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[riggerrob 562]

Quote

Thks, nice feedback.

When you refer to (eg) 'student # 2', how do you ensure that the student knows that he/she is #2 without any chance of error?

S

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The first student out of the airplane is always: student number 1," the second student out is always "student #2," etc.
Names are nice, but too easily confused if a student refuses, exit order gets switched at the last second, etc.
Canopy colors do not always work as a significant number of males are color-blind.

[freeflygirlz 0]

Hi!
We put our radios in the students helmet. we have put cypres set up bags on the left side of the helmets, they have the perfekt size for our radios.

I have a little map, only for documentation of the radio stuff. There I (as AFF-Instructor) write down:
- name of the student
- load in which we are jumping
- number of the gear (in this map are the gear-numbers with the coulours of main and reserve canopies, type and size as well)
- number of jumps the student has (to make sure a first-time student gets what he needs, but a student with a few jumps is not talked down all the way)
- room for comments from the radio-instructor (eg. flares very late...)
and signature of the radio I

Before bording the plane I hand over this map and the instructors-radio to an instructor, who then is resposible for the radio for the next load. He also has to do the canopy-debrief with the sudent. This works very well for our school and its not too much of work.

As we usually only do one tandem, I personally assist the student on the first jump alot, but keep the talking short and straight to the point.

As someone else talked about student malfunctions: IMO the radio instructor should not tell the student to do a cutaway!!! The students are well trained to decide wether to cut away or not. Thats his business! Only if he is not doing anything a all for a very long time, then maybe. I have heard a story, where the radio instructor told one student to cutaway, then 4 students in this load did chop, one of them pretty low!! this happend about 10 years ago, so might be a little bit of a camp fire story, but anyway, it could happen!!

Make sure to buy good and small radios. bag on the chest strap is fine, helmet as well and IMO they can hear it better. Make sure, they are not deaf on the ear, where the radio is!

[Andrewwhyte 1]

When students hear the radio there is sometimes an attitude that it's all good. The most important change you need to make is for your instructors to strongly make the point that the radio instructor will not assess their canopy for them; they and they alone are responsible for canopy assessment.

[kevinwhelan 0]

At our dropzone we use 2 way radios on the students. The radio is in an inside pocket of the jumpsuit with an earpiece. The 2 way is very handy when
a student lands off because you can tell them to take out the radio and talk back to you. Helps a lot when you are trying to find them and lets you know if they are hurt etc.

"be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

[Simba 0]

Thks to all for posts and private emails.

Useful information and insight - much obliged!

Blue skies
S

[lug 4]

The number of radios your school buys depends on how many student rigs you are using on a back to back load situation. We have been using the same three-watt Motorola radio’s for nine or ten years and when there is the slightest problem they are swapped out with spares and then sent out for repair. Whatever brand your school chooses make sure you know where the radios go for repair. We have seven radios mounted on student helmets sized from small to XL, three instructor radios, three spares, and two five-watt radios for ground use to cover for the in air instructors until they get on the ground.

When talking to the student keep it simple its most likely their first jump so talk only when it is necessary and the most important is talk in a calm and clear voice. Some schools may identify their student by numbers others by the color of their canopy. If using the canopy color they should be unique yet easy for the student and instructor to identify. Avoid using common colors at least not on the same load.

Keep your visual aids of gloves and arrows as back ups, radios are not 100% at least not until your SOP has been establish and all your instructors are on board with the new equipment

Memento Mori