dazza 0 #51 June 27, 2005 Hi Tim its horse (NZ) thought I'll reply to you and say hi.Quote Heres the half the reasons and answers. APF put in place 500 jumps because when we started doing it in Cairns (Aust)we figured we had better put a recomendation in before the APF make their own rule. (they have a habbit of making rules for the sake of it!) The 500 jump number was a knee jerk suggestion with no logical reason behind it except that we all had that many tandems behind us except one newly rated TM. Wrist cam can be done safely if the TM is a full time jumper not a weekend warrior and if you consider comparing part timers (camera) and a professional doing wrist cam it doesn't take a genius to work out what is safer when you look at some of the camera helmet around. I recommended 100 jumps ages ago but with dropzone safety officer approval or Chief Instructor Because in a full time situation with the support of other exprienced TMs a TM with only 100 jumps can easy transition to doing wrist cam. Its all about having a routine a sticking to it! Something that should be drummed in well before getting an A licience and hammered in again when getting their TM rating. And the subject of money... One DZ/business owner did a wristcam with the idea of reducing payments got down and told his instructors "you can have your $50 bucks" I'm presently in Japan earning $100 bucks a jump doing wristcam and I don't even edit the thing. If TMs want to "sell out" and do it for stuff all go for it. They will burn out and I'll get a phone call one day to help get the job done.http://www.skydivinghandicam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skypilot 0 #52 June 28, 2005 All the questions asked are doubts I had before I became a hand cam regular. I had over a 1000 tandems before I put the glove on and it is a part of regular routine on every tandem now. I have over 500 tandems with handcam now. I have had 2 malfunctions wearing handcam and I can offer a product which I know from experience some people prefer to outside camera. Each to their own. Just gives the customer another option.Go big! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #53 June 28, 2005 Always glad to hear from the Aussies who pioneered handy-cam. You help us keep things in perspective. As for pay ... Sunday, clouds limited us to 3 loads, so I only did 3 tandems, with handy-cam. At CAN$75 a piece, I earned $225 for a short day's work, more than double what any other staff member earned. When I look back to the days (starting in 1986) when I did tandems for $15, $20, $25, $30 or $35 ... that was slave labour. Handy-cam FINALLY pays me what I am worth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites signormeek 0 #54 June 30, 2005 As a UK TI what bothers me the most is that the issue (of hand-cams by the British Parachute association) was debated by 17 people on behalf of all of the people jumping in the UK - and I'll bet that some of them weren't TIs and that they simply reacted in typical fashion through ignorance. On a personal level I have no problem with doing it as its a CHEAP way of giving the customer a good reminder of what they have done - especially when you consider what my DZ charges for video/stills. For Video - or 35mm roll of film the punters have to pay the eqyuivalent of $160US. To have both costs $216US and then if they want it done on DVD they get to pay an additional $40US Can anyone top that for costs? The reason for this is that the video work is a concession that has to pay rent to the DZO plus increased slot prices etc and there is no competition As for the experience level required to do it - In UK where TIs have to have 800 jumps to get their licence that 100 tandems would be a minimum before doing it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #55 June 30, 2005 The reason for this is that the video work is a concession that has to pay rent to the DZO plus increased slot prices etc and there is no competition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Competition is the key. North American DZs have so many amateur videographers - who are willing to work for (almost) free - that full-timers cannot charge very much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanglesOZQld 0 #56 July 3, 2005 I think that prior experience is definitely something that should be brought up with regard to Tandem numbers with Handcam being introduced. No-one knows you better than your own DZSO or C.I especially if you have been at mostly the one dz prior to your ratings. Putting a blanket number down for a certain jump requirement has always been good on paper but is not the be all and end all solution. How many tm's out there with thousands of jumps could not dive down last in an 18 way and get in no problems??? Hey, but they have heaps of jumps don't they? The same way I agree with another post re currency. A low number full time jumper in some cases might be greater in skill than a high number weekend warrior. BSBD! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #57 July 3, 2005 whta about having exprience with (outside) video this could also be a factor. many T/M's have never done camera so adding the unknown would be far more to deal with than if you hade done 2000 camera jumps and are comfortable with the camea operation. i'm a vidiot but i'm doing my T/rating this week. i've done 1800 camera jumps. i've seen T/M's doing hand cam that can hardly find thier way around a video camera let alone know about good compsition etc. surely this must add a whole lot of thinking to the aquasion? just my thoughts. i recon 100 tandems with previous camera skills(1000+) and 500 without. i didn't vote as i havn't done my rating yet."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanglesOZQld 0 #58 July 19, 2005 The previous camera skill is good for producing a better handcam video but has nothing in my view to do with the overall skill or safety level required to take a handcam on a tandem jump. Having done outside camera I take into account a lot more like the direction of the sun and other extra features of the camera that some "only done tandem jumps" instructors don't do and thus making a better handcam video. BSBD! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #59 July 19, 2005 QuoteThere are probably some people reading this post that are remembering when I was a snot nosed punk. Hell they may still think that. Wow, Aaron made two good points in a row. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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Skypilot 0 #52 June 28, 2005 All the questions asked are doubts I had before I became a hand cam regular. I had over a 1000 tandems before I put the glove on and it is a part of regular routine on every tandem now. I have over 500 tandems with handcam now. I have had 2 malfunctions wearing handcam and I can offer a product which I know from experience some people prefer to outside camera. Each to their own. Just gives the customer another option.Go big! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #53 June 28, 2005 Always glad to hear from the Aussies who pioneered handy-cam. You help us keep things in perspective. As for pay ... Sunday, clouds limited us to 3 loads, so I only did 3 tandems, with handy-cam. At CAN$75 a piece, I earned $225 for a short day's work, more than double what any other staff member earned. When I look back to the days (starting in 1986) when I did tandems for $15, $20, $25, $30 or $35 ... that was slave labour. Handy-cam FINALLY pays me what I am worth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
signormeek 0 #54 June 30, 2005 As a UK TI what bothers me the most is that the issue (of hand-cams by the British Parachute association) was debated by 17 people on behalf of all of the people jumping in the UK - and I'll bet that some of them weren't TIs and that they simply reacted in typical fashion through ignorance. On a personal level I have no problem with doing it as its a CHEAP way of giving the customer a good reminder of what they have done - especially when you consider what my DZ charges for video/stills. For Video - or 35mm roll of film the punters have to pay the eqyuivalent of $160US. To have both costs $216US and then if they want it done on DVD they get to pay an additional $40US Can anyone top that for costs? The reason for this is that the video work is a concession that has to pay rent to the DZO plus increased slot prices etc and there is no competition As for the experience level required to do it - In UK where TIs have to have 800 jumps to get their licence that 100 tandems would be a minimum before doing it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #55 June 30, 2005 The reason for this is that the video work is a concession that has to pay rent to the DZO plus increased slot prices etc and there is no competition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Competition is the key. North American DZs have so many amateur videographers - who are willing to work for (almost) free - that full-timers cannot charge very much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanglesOZQld 0 #56 July 3, 2005 I think that prior experience is definitely something that should be brought up with regard to Tandem numbers with Handcam being introduced. No-one knows you better than your own DZSO or C.I especially if you have been at mostly the one dz prior to your ratings. Putting a blanket number down for a certain jump requirement has always been good on paper but is not the be all and end all solution. How many tm's out there with thousands of jumps could not dive down last in an 18 way and get in no problems??? Hey, but they have heaps of jumps don't they? The same way I agree with another post re currency. A low number full time jumper in some cases might be greater in skill than a high number weekend warrior. BSBD! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #57 July 3, 2005 whta about having exprience with (outside) video this could also be a factor. many T/M's have never done camera so adding the unknown would be far more to deal with than if you hade done 2000 camera jumps and are comfortable with the camea operation. i'm a vidiot but i'm doing my T/rating this week. i've done 1800 camera jumps. i've seen T/M's doing hand cam that can hardly find thier way around a video camera let alone know about good compsition etc. surely this must add a whole lot of thinking to the aquasion? just my thoughts. i recon 100 tandems with previous camera skills(1000+) and 500 without. i didn't vote as i havn't done my rating yet."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanglesOZQld 0 #58 July 19, 2005 The previous camera skill is good for producing a better handcam video but has nothing in my view to do with the overall skill or safety level required to take a handcam on a tandem jump. Having done outside camera I take into account a lot more like the direction of the sun and other extra features of the camera that some "only done tandem jumps" instructors don't do and thus making a better handcam video. BSBD! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #59 July 19, 2005 QuoteThere are probably some people reading this post that are remembering when I was a snot nosed punk. Hell they may still think that. Wow, Aaron made two good points in a row. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
