Regarding ParaCommanders (PC's)

[WGore 0]

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I shortened the crown-lines to the same length...no slack in 'em when packing....MAN that thing opened hard!

Do you mean the apex lines? I can't figure out how the crown lines would affect the opening. The apex lines on the other hand would have a big affect on the fill time.

You got that right! When you tighten the apex lines it leaves a little slack in the suspension lines and allows them to spread quicker taking air. Sort of like the old T-7 and T-10 reserves. Clear the container and take air, meanwhile the lines are still unstowing. Not exactly the same but damned close.

GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

[GreenLight 5]

My first rig was a Wonderhog with an RW PC in a regular deployment bag with a hand deploy pilot chute installed. I had a 26 Lo Po for a researve which I used once. I got it from Dean Westguard in 1981 I believe. Squares were around but we weren't allowed to jump them untill we had 75 jumps under rounds. At least that was the story that Larry Fatino gave me LOL... John Camble test jumped it for me before I got it and he almost went in on it with a hard pull. He ended up on the other side of the 15 freeway behind a hill.

Green Light
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."

[pchapman 261]

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My first rig was a Wonderhog with an RW PC in a regular deployment bag with a hand deploy pilot chute installed.

So on a PC in a deployment bag, do the crown lines stow in elastics inside the top of the bag? Or how does it work?

That's the way I guessed it could work when putting a PC into a bag a couple years back.

[stratostar 5]

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Dean Westguard

I still have a vintage set of gloves from Westguard with the tracking man logo on them, if they didn't have holes in the finger tips I would use them once and a while on retro jumps.
Could get a small pile of cash today for that rig today in mint condition. *I have S/N 944 wonderhog with a MK1 in it and lopo, HD of course.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[stratostar 5]

Well all of mine the crowns come out the top of the bag and stow on the outside like the lines do. Make sure it's the large # 0.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[councilman24 36]

Usetawuz is a gentleman and a scholar. H/C and RW PC arrived today.

I have a PC bag around somewhere with a #8 grommet on top and stow for the crown lines on the outside. Going to try that in my big Vector.

The conventional H/C looks like fun. Except for the shot and a halfs. But it came with a pod. I understand the stowing and mechanics (probably) but can anybody supply a diagram of how it was supposed to be folded in there? I can make it up but might like to know the right way.
Hmmm, can I convert a three pin main container to a throw out??? Hmmm, A CHALLENGE! (just kidding, kind of --- a long cable pin with a guide ring?)

But, I'd like to find a pop top container. Any ideas, other than paying $400 for a new one? I have the parts for a belly wart. And might put my Phantom 28 in that. But would rather have a pop top chest mount. Actually have on in my basement but it belongs to someone else (he still owes more for the pack job from last year) and it has a 24' flat remanufactured by John Sherman in 1974 to cut modifications in it. I just as soon not jump that (and told my customer I didn't want him to either). It had a malfunction rate of 17% BEFORE the unmeshed mods.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[377 20]

I did a lot of jumping on a tired porous C9 cheapo rag in the late 60s. It was all I could afford in my starving student days. I NEVER was able to do a stand up, just hit too damned hard. Stood up my first PC jump and nearly every subsequent one (no downwind landings though). What an amazing difference. I thought nothing could be finer, then the squares really started taking hold. Now I think nothing could be finer (for a cautious old guy who doesn't swoop) than my Triathlon 190. What's next?

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mark 102]

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Can I convert a three pin main container to a throw out??? Hmmm, A CHALLENGE!

Three curved pins, finger trapped Dacron line connecting them.

Take the cones off, put in grommets, cover the back side of the grommets with elastic: you can now have soft loops. Might need to add additional grommets offset from the ones the cones used. That would kill two birds with one stone: the original grommets are probably too big for standard curved pins, and soft loops would otherwise be too long to allow original closing geometry.

Should close a little easier without a pilot chute in there.

Take photos, get video. Thanks!

Mark

[GreenLight 5]

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My first rig was a Wonderhog with an RW PC in a regular deployment bag with a hand deploy pilot chute installed.

So on a PC in a deployment bag, do the crown lines stow in elastics inside the top of the bag? Or how does it work?

That's the way I guessed it could work when putting a PC into a bag a couple years back.

On mine they just S folded into the bag just like the rest of the chute. The thing I remember taking the most care of in packing was the stabilizers. And I never had a malfunction with it. I had a total once but that was before the hand deployed pilot chute was installed. I was using a temporary ripcord till I got to 75 jumps and then they allowed you to use a throw out. Had the total on the 37th jump. The red white and blue 26' Lo Po worked great. Stood it up.

Green Light
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."

[jbrasher 0]

My first square rig was a Starto Wedge with a 24' and a Strato Star (rings and ropes, of course; lasted maybe 2 jumps before the slider replaced them). It came with a 2 (3?) pin container and almost immediately the cones were replaced with elastic chord loops.
When hand-deploys showed up a friend sewed an triangular pocket on the right-side of the belly band at th hip and we routed the bridle through the elastic loops.
We doubled the bridle over once at each loop to give it a little stiffness and it worked real good.

Put several hundred jumps on it and the only problem i had was a premature deployment once in a head down dive out of a D-18.

Felt like the container was rolling off my back just before everything stopped abruptly.

It was state of the art in it's time and would surely look like a death trap today.

Red, White and Blue Skies,

John T. Brasher D-5166

[stratostar 5]

I will have to dig around in my crap, but I might have a pop top wart container and cap for a pilot chute, it will be in need of some rehab work and a good cleaning, I have to look around I know we had 3 containers and at least 2 caps, but two of the containers I can let go, not mine to give.

As for the POD, there great, real space savers. You need to pull it down the crowns to fill the top, but first take a look at the main flap that comes up tp your first stows, you can see that some of the canopy will stick out that end, too much and you'll be stuffing and pounding, just the right amount and it will close easy.

Just make flake it out and lay on your table or floor and split it in the middle, then fold in 3rds, S fold the canopy to fit the POD, once or twice you should get a feel for how big to make your S folds. When you get to the stab's just S flod them on top of every thing and close your locking flap.

The stabs can be a bitch to keep neet the first few times you do it because you have the lines in there too but a few time trying and you'll get the hang of it.

I won't be at the DZ anytime soon that I know of , but if need be I can unpack one of my PODs and take some photos of the repack to send you.

I'm sure if you put it in a D-bag and into your vector you dig that set up best. But vintage sutff is great nothing wrong with shot n halfs, could always change them out to R-3.

I try to make it out the the loft in the next week of so to look for the pop top & cap.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[GreenLight 5]

Here's a video of two PC jumpers doing a gutter gear jump at Elsinore in the 90s. Lyle Cameron Jr and Rick Feese were the culprits. Slammer and I joined in to watch the deployments.

Note** Rick's canopy was picked up at a yard sale for $25.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92JYInAqN7s

Hope this isn't a repost. I'll check.

Green Light
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."

[howardwhite 4]

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But it came with a pod. I understand the stowing and mechanics (probably) but can anybody supply a diagram of how it was supposed to be folded in there?

Maybe the POD patent will help.

HW

[Colson 0]

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Can I convert a three pin main container to a throw out??? Hmmm, A CHALLENGE!

Three curved pins, finger trapped Dacron line connecting them.

Take the cones off, put in grommets, cover the back side of the grommets with elastic: you can now have soft loops. Might need to add additional grommets offset from the ones the cones used. That would kill two birds with one stone: the original grommets are probably too big for standard curved pins, and soft loops would otherwise be too long to allow original closing geometry.

Should close a little easier without a pilot chute in there.

Take photos, get video. Thanks!

Mark

Interesting...would you still need/use the pack opening bands with that arrangement?

[councilman24 36]

Already has nylon loops. Was made that way. Not sure what the main container is. It's in one of Franks messages. (I wasn't thinking of threading a long cable though three cones. I'm not that nuts.)

No pack opening bands (for the last poster).

This is a 1975 PC. According to the Paragear ad it's 1.5 ounce material. Did they ever make them with F-111? Seems to me like I was told the other one I'd seen was F-111 but maybe it just seemed like it compared to the old ones.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 36]

But, if I did your suggestion of three curved pins on braided line (and I think I saw this somewhere once) would you have the line short enough between the pins to start loading them all at once or slack so they went sequentially. They'd go sequentially anyway but I can envision a difference. Just can't decide which would be best.

Of course the long pin protector flap gets in the way. Yep, have to get video of the tow. Maybe a three pin pull out?


Hmmm, have to think some more. Ripcord is sounding better and better.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[mark 102]

I'd go for sequence, bottom to top. If the cover flap is held with Velcro, I'd expect the pilot chute would have enough drag to strip it open.

3-pin pull-out? Would have to be left-handed if the container closes on the diagonal. Unless, of course, you do an over-the-shoulder pull-out.

Mark

[Scubadivemaster 3]

Another fellow victim, er . . . "participant" for this year's Richmond round jump! Whoever lands farthest out walks back naked (new rule from last year, I'd send pictures, but you really don't want to see them.)

I've got my own Russian for this years jump (in a Racer). (Go ahead, call me a weenie)

[councilman24 36]

Container isn't diagonal, it's vertical. Some sort of late model sport back main container. 3 loop vertical with two sets of gromments for varying tightness and no POB's.

Frank told me what he thought it was but it's in the letter at home.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[stratostar 5]

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I've got my own Russian for this years jump (in a Racer). (Go ahead, call me a weenie)

No need for name calling, I saw the gear you jumped nothing weenie about that, other then the guy walking back....

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[jerry9461 0]

Terry:
I was looking through some boxes in the loft, and I found a set of R-3s, new and still in the bag. You could get rid of the shot and a halfs and still use the H/C. I also have some other new stock releases that are replacements for the 1.5s.

[councilman24 36]

Thanks for looking. Would much rather have R3's. I had Sport Life Wells (sp?) on my Crossbow container. Is that one of the other releases? It got rid of the pivot and rivet and had the capewell slider sewn to the webbing with type 2 gutted. Then threaded through the female, wrapped around the male and held with velcro. Kind of scary. Still the same load bearing hardware just not much holding it in place. I was continuously checking them. Never came loose on a jump though.

I trained with shot and a halfs and really don't need to do those any more.

Please send me a message and let me know how much. But, I'd need the installation tools and rivets too wouldn't I? I know where a set of tools and some rivets should be in the supplies of a DZO that passed away but I don't know if we could find them.

Anyway, send me a PM and let me know. I'd probably be stupid enough to jump the shot and halfs but really don't want to.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[mark 102]

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I'd need the installation tools and rivets too wouldn't I?

I have a Capewell rivet kit I could loan. New R-3 releases should come with the rivets. At least, they did the last time I installed a pair, in '81 or '82.

Cheers,
Mark

[councilman24 36]

Thanks Mark. I may take you up on it. I haven't heard from Jerry yet.

My 1981 Para Gear catalog offers the rivets and washers separately.

Of course I could leave it original.

I'll let you know.

Oh, it's a Secret H/C by The Altitude Shop. But I'll be damned if I can find a label on it.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[WGore 0]

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Thanks Mark. I may take you up on it. I haven't heard from Jerry yet.

My 1981 Para Gear catalog offers the rivets and washers separately.

Of course I could leave it original.

I'll let you know.

Oh, it's a Secret H/C by The Altitude Shop. But I'll be damned if I can find a label on it.

If you don't have the rivets, I think I have some floating around the basement, probably have the tool as well, haven't looked in years, not a big call for that stuff anymore.

GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!