Do skydivers care about safety?

[billvon 2,772]

>So, how would the average jumper know that the decrease in pack volume of A
> canopy compared to B canopy was due to the fact that the spanwise
> reinforcement tape was left off?
Ask. If you order from a reputable dealer, ask them and they will either know or find out. If you're buying secondhand, give the manufacturer a call. Remember what the only stupid question is . . .
-bill von

[pilotdave 0]

Quote

some manufacturers simply have not kept up

Anyone care to name names in the name of safety? Dave
http://www.skydivingmovies.com

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Great thread folks, I would like to throw some things into the pot.
Check the post numbers here for safety and training, and gear and rigging, they far outstrip freefly, swooping, RW and CRW postings, skydivers do care about safety.
I don't think many skydivers are blase about safety (DZ safety people ---STa, CCI, riggers etc--normally have word in their small and shell-like sooner or later), most are simply ignorant, misinformed, etc. Assuming we are talking about equipment safety, I firmly believe that most reputable equipment manufacturers (and equipment developers like yourself Mr Booth, big respect to you sir for your life's work so far) have done everything reasonably practical to provide safe, functional equipment (the important concept here is "reasonable practicality"). I appreciate there is constant development, we are a dynamic sport in equipment development terms, thanks to the likes of your good self.
Equipment that is correctly assembled and operated is unlikely (in my opinion) to be the initiator for some drama. Mismatched, poorly maintained, or equipment that is operated outside of the manufacturers recommended limits is another issue.----We've all read the "death" panels on our own gear right??
It is a sad fact that the majority of incidents that hurt our brothers and sisters are down to 'human factors', people trying to go too fast, too far, too soon. Or experienced people making bad judgement calls.
I believe that we should be focussing (in addition to, not as a replacement for, equipment safety awareness) on more structured development of skydiving skills beyond basic license requirements. Only now are we starting to see advanced canopy handling schools coming to the fore, but how long have 'high performance landings' been around for?.....
I'm not disagreeing with anything said in this thread, just chucking my lot into the big safety melting pot.
Cya
D

[austnzamer 0]

Are you kidding?
You are telling me that my Raven 181 reserve is less safe than a PD Reserve? I weigh 175 without gear. Am I jumping an unsafe reserve?
I also have mini rings, and this is the first time I've heard they are unsafe. As a novice jumper one of two things is true here. Either I misinterpreted the danger level of my mini rings and Raven 181 that I percieve from Bill's e-mail.
Or, I was sold less safe gear by morons and jerks who were taking advantage of my stupidity...
Wow.
I may have to quit this damn sport. I would appreciate people responding to this. I don't know what to do.
Sell all the gear I just bought?
SHIT!
Paul

[billbooth 10]

Paul;
Precision makes a good product. Many thousands of people have used their reserves without incident. Mini 3-rings are NOT dangerous if correctly made. Almost everyone uses them, and people are not dropping like flies. My point here is to educate jumpers to the point where they know enough to demand the very best from the manufacturers. I'm sorry if I have unnecessarily scared you, and will be glad to talk to you personally about your specific gear. Call me at Relative Workshop after visiting www.relativeworkshop.com, and looking at the mini 3-ring photos in the "Technical" section.
Bill Booth

[sunshine 2]

Thank you Bill for sharing your knowledge with us. I learned alot from this thread. I think it's wonderful that someone like you with so many years in the sport is still taking time to teach us low timers stuff!! You rawk!!
"Who gave Phreezone the remote again?!" ~ Goat Blower

[PhreeZone 15]

Bill... I just wanted to chime in that its a great service you are doing to the internet community by posting here. I'm recommending all the jumpers at the DZ pop on here and check out your articles if nothing else about this website. If they learned as much as I did, then that will be a great thing! Thanks again Bill and everyone else!
"Hey.. Its my camera, and my remote... I'll rewind if I want to!" ~ Goat #2

[billbooth 10]

Dave,
The fact that you are asking the question, "Which brands are safer?, is a wonderful thing. I means that you understand that just because something is TSOed, doesn't mean that it is made to the highest standards. What equipment is best for you is a hard question to answer without knowing a lot more about you. First find someone who has been around for a while, and will not directly profit from selling you something that has been sitting on the shelf for three years. Then ask that person for his or her opinion. Making a careful, sensible choice when buying parachute gear is one of the most important things you will ever do in your life. There is a lot of good gear out there, but there are a few "stinkers".

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Making a careful, sensible choice when buying parachute gear is one of the most important things you will ever do in your life. "
Amen to these wise words
Cya
D

[jphill 0]

Thanks for the article Bill.
When I was looking around for my first rig several months ago I was constantly trying to seek information like you've provided, and am very grateful to those instructors who took the time to help me. I weigh 77kg without gear and had been told that I was particulary good under canopy and thus should look for a 150 main (saber or the like). Going from a 240 student boat to a 150 seemed like a huge step down so I opted for a 170 main with a 180 reserve. My point is that it is up to every jumper (esspecially new ones) to ultimatly make their own decisions regarding their life; advice from informed, experianced and well intentioned jumpers is invaluable- but the final choice is up to each person who must live with any consequences of their actions. If people don't do their own research ( as well as seeking advice) when buying equipment as important as a parachute, then what the hell are they doing jumping out of planes?

[Beachbum 0]

Bill,
Thanks SOOOO much for your posts! I only wish I'd had the chance to get some of that info 18 months ago. I was in the situation BillVon stated ... coming off student status ... looking to buy my first rig ... trying to understand the reasons for/against all the various options presented to me. I asked the JM's ... the riggers ... and anyone else with higher jump #'s about all kinds of stuff, but never got the type of info which you have provided in one clearly worded article. I'm sure going to pull the rig out tomorrow and make those measurements, etc. as you show in your pictures. Thanks again! (and also, thanks for all the entertainment ... love observing folks preparing for a tandem watching that video!!)

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[JFC3 0]

Hi Bill,
I don't have the time nor energy to read all the posts your insightful article garnered. But since I have the opportunity to reply I thought I would use it.
If anyone of us were of the right mind and completely concerned with safety we would keep our wingless asses on the ground. Sure part of this sport is looking good and I don't think one should fault anyone else for that. Having read Mike Swain's book, The Endless Fall, I believe it's always been this way.
I want my rig to have some style and flash to it. I want mini rings and risers. I want a small reserve pack job and micro-lines. However my desire for the hottest toys don't take my eye off the prize. I realize that planet's coming no matter what and it's up to me and my equipment to get there slow enough to survive it, but fast enough to enjoy the rush. It's a delicate balance.
Your own rigs are very safe. Probably the best on the market. I recently went on a tour of your facotry and got to see the Bill Ball. Very ingenious idea. For those who don't know it's a new reserve pilot chute design. However, I couldn't buy a Relative Workshop rig because of it's asthetic design. I'll take a Javelin or Mirage over it anyday.
Let no-one forget it was Bill who made this sport one we can all enjoy. And I will say it time and time again, The Vector and the Micron are probably the best built container/harness systems out there. All others have stolen from Bill's original design. They just made it look better, and that Bill is why they sell better.
Always was, always shall be...

[slotperfect 7]

A parallel from the history of our sport . . . the CYPRES AAD was born as a result of a German gent named Helmut Cloth who cared enough about safety to create a state-of-the-art solution to the widespread mistrust & non-use of AADs. "Fashion" was one of HIS concerns as well.
I have witnessed a CYPRES save, and I jump one with complete confidence. I trust Airtec, and don't grumble about the battery life, maintenance schedule, or service life.
Sadly, his quest started as a result of the death of a friend (who was not wearing an AAD). People like Bill, and there are many out there, want to create a skydiving world where we don't wait for our mates to be killed to learn from their mistakes.
Part of making this happen is for every jumper to learn as much as they can about their gear . . . why it's built like it is, how everything functions, and why things like exercising the webbing of your 3-ring system are important (that was for you, Bill). I encourage all of you to learn about your gear. I think you will find it truly fascinating once you get into it. I sure did.
Respectfully,
SP

[Zennie 0]

Quote

I couldn't buy a Relative Workshop rig because of it's asthetic design. I'll take a Javelin or Mirage over it anyday.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I honestly don't understand this statement, especially with respect to the Mirage. With a couple of subtle differences, the Mirage and Vector 3 look almost identical. If anything, I always thought the Mirage looked a little more "square-ish" and the Vector had more rounded lines.
As far as Javelins go. No thanks. I've seen way too many main pin and should harness covers flapping in the wind.
Nope. Gimme a Vector. It'll only open when I tell it to.
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."