What is this plane? #9

[howardwhite 5]

And who's jumping it, where and when?

HW

[pilotdave 0]

I'll go on a limb and take a guess on the aircraft type based on a quick google search...

Douglas R4D-8 (or C-117 after 1962).

Close?

Dave

[Zing 2]

That is a Douglas R4-D Super3, a variant of the DC-3 with Pratt&Whitney R-2000 engines and a squared off vertical fin and landing gear doors, among other mods.
I have no idea who or where, but I'll hazard a guess that it is a military airplane and the jumpers' gear screams early-mid 60s

Zing Lurks

[piper17 1]

I will add that I think the R4D was a US Navy aircraft so the jumpers may be Navy personnel...Leapfrogs? Lakehurst, NJ?

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[howardwhite 5]

Quote

I will add that I think the R4D was a US Navy aircraft so the jumpers may be Navy personnel...Leapfrogs? Lakehurst, NJ?

I think we need a Zing filter which blocks his answers for 24 hours after the question is posted.
Anyway, it is a Navy plane (original attached) and it is Lakehurst, but it is not Navy personnel. It was published in Parachutist September '71.
The cutline: "From Lakehurst 'Super Meet'. Members of the Long Island Skydivers exit the C-37 at Lakehurst NAS, New Jersey. Pete Ibarguen, Bill Busch and Bill Martin. Photo by Mike Efstration using a helmet-mounted Robot-Royal."
(The C-37 reference is not a typo, at least not my typo.)

Which leads to the observation/question. These are civilians jumping out of a military aircraft. I made a fair number of jumps from Army Hueys both at the West Point Cadet DZ at Wallkill and at Pepperell, MA.
When and why did the military stop civilian jumping from their aircraft?
(I have my own "answer" but would welcome others.)

HW

[BKR 0]

In September 12th 1982, around 50 peoples were killed when a helicopter crashed (CH47) at Manheim Germany. 40 of them were friends of mine. Since this accident most of the jumps from US military aircraft have been stoped. We jump CH47 in 1888 for the Seoul Olympics but it seems to be because of this special event..

Jérôme Bunker
Basik Air Concept
www.basik.fr
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Le-Luc-France/BASIK-AIR-CONCEPT/172133350468

[RogerRamjet 0]

I don't know when or why, but I do know that the Golden Knights practiced for a week at Z-Hills in 1973 and again in 1974 and we were not allowed to jump their aircraft. They said it was a military rule.

-----------------------
Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

[piper17 1]

I don't remember when but it was stopped as a result of a radio DJ trying to get military aircraft for some function and raising a stink when he was turned down...at least that is one story I heard a bunch of years ago.

I remember being able to jump Army UH-1s and Dehavilland Beavers or Otters when we first competed at West Point/Walkill - early mid 70s. Later, we had to bring our own aircraft..a piston Porter and C-182. That would have been in the late '70s - early '80s.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[NickDG 23]

In the early 1970s in Hawaii at the Army's Tropic Lightning Sport Parachute Club, in addition to all branches of active duty, all retired and dependants (wives, sons & daughters) could jump from the Army's helicopters.

The Marine Corps, at the time, over at the Kaneohe Marine Sport Parachute Club was limited to active duty only.

The whole "military club" thing went down the drain when the first phony "gas crisis" hit . . .

NickD BASE 194

[piisfish 135]

Quote

We jump CH47 in 1888 for the Seoul Olympics but it seems to be because of this special event..

was that for the first pre-de Coubertin olympics ?? Damn Jerome you're old...

Jerome B, skydiving since the 19th century

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[gemini 0]

More than a few years ago I did a little research on the issue and found that the decision to allow civilians on military aircraft is the local base commander's. However there were congressional hearings going on at the time that were questioning why civilians were being given free rides on military aircraft. Most commanders basically said, "I'm not falling on that sword" and stopped allowing civilian passengers.

Like most regulations, it is very difficult to read which may have been intentional so congress could continue flying.

Blue skies,

Jim

[jimjumper 25]

When I retired in '97 we were still jumping CH-46's and CH-53's in Okinawa. Since we were MWR sponsored the military provided aircraft for the Okinawa Sport Parachute Club.

[howardwhite 5]

Quote

I don't remember when but it was stopped as a result of a radio DJ trying to get military aircraft for some function and raising a stink when he was turned down...at least that is one story I heard a bunch of years ago.

That is approximately my story as well, but I can perhaps be more specific. Albany, NY, area DZ, summer of 1976. As I recall, the DZO and DJ were not not happy with the lack of response to their request for military aircraft -- which they were already advertising -- so went to their Congressman. Instead of being helpful with this constituent request, he complained to the Army about the idea, and that was that.

HW