drop zones adding trips to tunnel for FJC

[SilentJ 0]

I was wondering how many dropzone in the proposed States or adjacent states are planning some sort of curriculm For FJC students involving the new tunnel in their state One thing I would like to see is road trips to the tunnel sponsored by the DZ Also does anyone have any ideas or heard anyhting about the site of the tunnels especially in texas. I would save a lot of money if it was in dallas or houston it only a 5 hour drive :)

[billvon 2,470]

>I was wondering how many dropzone in the proposed States or adjacent
>states are planning some sort of curriculm For FJC students involving the new
>tunnel in their state.
I would tend to hope not. The FJC (and first 7-10 jumps) is all about survival skills, not good RW skills. Tunnel flying teaches you RW. AFF teaches you how to check your gear, how to safely board a plane, exit, practice deploying your parachute, determining altitude, pulling stable at the right altitude, checking your canopy, flying it around, and landing it safely amidst obstacles, winds and other jumpers. A tunnel teaches you about 5% of this.
A tunnel would make a great optional addition to a FJC/standard student progression; I would not want to see it replace any part of the standard student progression.
-bill von

[AndyMan 7]

Chicagoland (Hinckley) jumpers do a yearly pilgramage to SkyVenture Orlando. This is organized by the jumpers with the support of the DZO's. The DZO's usually accompany the jumpers. Quite the week, from what I understand.
This is the way it should be, IMHO. Tunnel time is very valuable in perfecting RW skills. I don't think it's ever been used seriously as part of a first jump course. That just seems like overkill.
_Am
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[SilentJ 0]

I am sorry I didnt mean the tunnel to replace any jumps in the FJC Just a preliminary option for student to learn to fly themselves before they jump or if stuck on a certain level
Silent J

[skymedic 0]

when I was going through aff at Sebastian if a student got stuck on a level they sent them to skyventure for 5 or so minutes of tunnel time..usualy always worked out....
Cheers
marc
Eat my altimeter Bitch!!!!

[rgoper 0]

i only have one objection to tunnel prior to, or during aff, afp, iaf, whatever the program, my problem with it is the "newbies" may think freefall will last for ever, and eventually someone will lose altitude awareness. this is my toughts and opinions only. take care, be safe everyone! Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[MarkM 0]

Quote

I would tend to hope not. The FJC (and first 7-10 jumps) is all about survival skills, not good RW skills. Tunnel flying teaches you RW.

I would think a small amount of tunnel time wouldn't be bad, just to teach basic stability.

[billvon 2,470]

>I would think a small amount of tunnel time wouldn't be bad, just to teach basic
> stability.
In terms of teaching stability and FF awareness, I think a tandem would do a better job of that. It is much closer to the environment they will be in. While I don't think a small amount of tunnel time before an FJC would be bad, I don't think you'd get much benefit from it as part of the FJC.
Now, right _after_ graduation, it would probably be a great learning tool.
-bill von

[MarkM 0]

Good point, and with tandeming you can teach some basic canopy skills.

[klingeme 0]

I live in Florida and jump at Skydive Space Center in Titusville and 2 years ago, when I was going through IAF (3 tandems before first jump course) I had problems on my first couple AFF style jumps. I'm very light and was extremely floaty. I spent 7 minutes in the tunnel and it helped me with my arch, stability in turns, and I also learned a little forward motion and backward motion (intentional Backsliding) in that short amount of time and I feel it was very necessary and helped me get through the program without repeating any jumps. SSC now offers an AFF package that includes a little tunnel time as an option when purchasing the packaged program. I think it has a place in the training program and can help build confidence in the air.
Mark Klingelhoefer
Mark Klingelhoefer

[hookit 0]

Quote

While I don't think a small amount of tunnel time before an FJC would be bad, I don't think you'd get much benefit from it as part of the FJC.

I actually had tunnel time before my first jump. I happened to be in Orlando on business and saw a flyer for Skyventure in the hotel lobby. I went and took the whuffo course and spent 2 minutes or so in the tunnel. It was just enough time to learn to get stable and turn just a bit. About a month later I did my AFF level 1 followed by level 2 the next day. I passed them with ease. Two weeks later I was fortunate enough to be in Orlando again for business and this time I bought ten minutes of tunnel time. After this I was actually able to combine tasks from certain levels and I graduated AFF early.
All of that being said, I've since realized that there's a LOT more to a FJC than just the freefall tasks and, in retrospect, I feel I missed out on some things (although I saved some buck$ and that was definitely a plus at the time) by graduating early. In particular the Emergency Procedures (I still went over them on my own but it's hard to beat having an AFFI put you in a harness and drill you on them) and canopy flight training.
I guess I would say that tunnel time could be a benefit to some students. Particularly those who are having difficulty with specific freefall tasks. However, IMO, it should definitely be optional.
I'm now a big fan of the AFP method because the curriculum includes so much more than the AFF program. Particularly the canopy instruction. I agree also that the tandem jumps do a good job of teaching freefall stability and awareness while still under the relatively much safer control of a tandem master.
Blues,
Trey

[billvon 2,470]

>I guess I would say that tunnel time could be a benefit to some students.
> Particularly those who are having difficulty with specific freefall tasks. However,
> IMO, it should definitely be optional.
I agree. Once they have the basics down, if they are having problems with just one part of freefall (i.e. turns or backsliding or whatever) tunnels can be a great way to "get the feel" of what they're doing in freefall. We used to give people the bowling speech; now we give them the wind tunnel speech, and often they come back after some tunnel time and do much, much better than before.
-bill von

[kopelen 0]

Think about this, 1. how many states have wind tunnels 2. what percent of new students are willing to pay more money to TRAVEL to the wind tunnel 3. as most instructors will tell you RW skills are 5% of what the FJC is about. Personally i think that the wind tunnel is a great learning tool. But basic survival skills are more important first than advanced RW skills. I do however condone using a wind tunnel for your gravity challenged students.