skypuppy 1 #1 February 23, 2003 I was wondering what forum to post this in, but I think I want to hear from people with experience in the 60's and 70's, since the outlook then may have been different from now... This subject has become a bit of a hot topic since it was mentioned that a motion may be made at this year's CSPA AGM to lift the lifetime suspension imposed 30 years ago (1973) on Bill Cole. The BoD recently refused Bill readmission so some members wish to bring a motion from the floor at the AGM... Bill was a colorful guy who did a lot of things in Canada - I am attaching a picture of his jump at the Canadian International Air Show on which he used 25' risers under his PC as a gimmick. Unfortunately it backfired when he got line twists and landed on top of a one story building across the road. To know more about Bill's suspension and the circumstances leading up to it you can copy and paste http://hometown.aol.com/pricesmoneypit/myhomepage/extreme.html Since this seems to be a hot topic among some Canadian jumpers I wondered what people in USPA, BPA, APA or other organizations thought - do you know people that have been suspended from an organization - who, what for, for how long? do they (or did they) have to make a formal application to rejoin, or did the suspension just lapse? Is it right to give out a life time suspension (what are the behavior modification chances of a life time ban, considering the person knows he;s not allowed to rejoin no matter how good he is)??? I have heard Rod Pack was NOT suspended for his chuteless jump in the 60's... I think Jimmy Tyler was kicked out of USPA in the 80's but I don;t know for sure why (was it the chuteless jumps? One at least was done in Mexico)... There were a bunch kicked out for BASE jumping in the 80's weren't there? Who, and what happened to them? I thought this might make for an interesting discussion. SkypuppyIf some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propblast 0 #2 February 23, 2003 Skypup, Have you seen the book the endless fall by mike swain. Its an excellent book with many good stories. In it he details the chuteless jump. makes for intresting reading. -ePropblast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lauril 0 #3 February 26, 2003 And if you're as lazy as I am, click here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #4 February 26, 2003 Yes, included with Bill's scrapbooks and logbooks was a copy of 'The Endless Fall'. In it was the inscription 'You're the only one that rated two chapters, Bill. Mike Swain' I later contacted Mike to tell him how much I enjoyed the book and get him a few addresses from people on the Descenders Parateam that Mike jumped with at the CIAS in the mid-late 70's... I was happy to hear Mike is planning a second book.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #5 March 12, 2003 In keeping with the attitudes that representatives of the Canadian Sport Parachute Association has exhibited for 30 years now, the VOTING MEMBER GROUPS (note not the individual general membership) have voted AGAINST LIFTING Bill's now 30 year suspension at this year's AGM (6 for, 15 against, 6 abstaining) ... This becomes even more incredulous to me after recent admissions that the membership was never asked to ratify the second suspension, which seemed to have been imposed for no actual incident, but simply a knee-jerk reaction by the BOD after the membership reversed their first suspension by a motion from the floor at the 1972 AGM... There were even attempts not to allow the motion to end Cole's suspension be heard from the floor at this year's AGM - 30 years later!!! Is this the way a national skydiving association is supposed to operate???If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #6 March 25, 2003 I'm a long way from this in time and space... Why was this man suspended for 30 years? Who died? eIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #7 March 25, 2003 Quote I'm a long way from this in time and space... Why was this man suspended for 30 years? Who died? Well, I'm assuming you read the article on the website I posted.... Bill was actually suspended twice - the first suspension (for his original chuteless jump) was lifted by a vote of the membership 2 1/2 years after it was imposed.... http://hometown.aol.com/pricesmoneypit/myhomepage/extreme.html As for your question - no one died... As far as we can determine no one even got hurt seriously... No one really seems to know the reason for the second suspension... At least no one other then the members of the BoD of CSPA who pretty much refuse to discuss it. Bill has no documentation from CSPA to state why he was suspended, or even that the association was considering his membership (ie he was given no hearing or chance to speak up for himself) and even now it seems the BoD continues to say 'The reasons are all in the file' - but then continue on 'but the file is confidential, so I guess you'll never know.' It has come out that the general membership never did ratify Bill's 2nd suspension, but apparently there was no protection for an individual member's rights in 1973 (pre-1984 when the new Charter for the association came out). Some people also wondered why it took so long for Bill to try to rejoin the organization, but it has come out that this is not the first time, but about the 4th time that Bill has tried to get accepted back into the group... I guess the association figures that if they just ignore him long enough he'll die or go away... I'm attaching a picture of Bill's Descender's Parateam freefalling over the Canadian National Exhibition in the mid-70's, with the newly constructed CN Tower in the background... (pic by Mike Swain see www.endlessfall.net) If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kizzie92 0 #8 April 14, 2003 According to the article, Bill's second suspension was for comments he made on a CBC TV interview. When asked if it was possible to parachute off the side of the Grand Canyon, Bill said that it was. Apparently this angered CSPA. Or were they just looking for an excuse to get rid of him again. And for that he was suspended for life again. CSPA also lobbied USPA to suspend Bill for life but I don't know the outcome of that. I met Bill a couple of years ago at SWOOP. He used to show up quite regularly to watch the canopies come down. He's a really nice old boy and I loved hearing his stories. Some amazing stories and some very sad ones. They ought to give him free CSPA membership for the rest of his life for the stuff he has done. I look at him as kind of a pioneer in the sport. Cheers TonyThe big difference between sex for money and sex for free is that sex for money usually costs a lot less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #9 April 17, 2003 That picture is awesome. Just think, you can have a couple hundred line twists and the canopy will still fly, I mean drop the same. Sweet!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blister 0 #10 May 16, 2003 [:(]suspended for 30 yrs....now that has to be a personality conflict...CSPA directors should review their methods. CSPA membership should review their directors. Its time to start a new parachuting organization in Canada...the current one is too dishonest with their members Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blister 0 #11 May 16, 2003 cspa has two sets of books (rules)....one for the members who kiss the directors tush....and one for the members they dont like....and who get suspended without reasons. CSPA is the ENRON of Canada. Canadian Sick Parachute Ass'n.... its the only organ - I - zation that is run by the directors for the directors...and the members can go take a jump in the lake Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #12 May 16, 2003 I would say that is a very accurate description. It appears some people are able to see through the cspa directors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #13 May 22, 2003 Welcome chuteless, It is always better to hear stories first hand. Until now we have only heard Bill Cole's story third hand. During the last CSPA AGM they debated a "personality clash" between Bill Cole and CSPA's Board of Directors a long time ago. Good luck forming your own Canadian National Group of Parachutists (or whatever you want to call yourselves). I hope you do better than CAPS (Canadian Association of Professional Skydivers). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 9 #14 May 22, 2003 Chuteless Hey, it's you! Glad to meet ya! Q. What do you want a CSPA membership for anyway? I could hook you up with a low HEMP#.(HEMP#6)...mike ----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #15 May 23, 2003 "Welcome chuteless, It is always better to hear stories first hand. Until now we have only heard Bill Cole's story third hand." So you're saying you don't believe what "I" wrote about Bill? If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #16 May 23, 2003 Hi Riggerrob: I have no intentions of forming any new "group", however, I suggest the Canadian Stupid Parachute Ass'n (CSPA) get their act together. I've watched them grow from nothing to nothing in the past 41 years. Of course its a personality clash...but mostly with Buzz Bonnett who has no personality. He is the instigator, following in the twisted footsteps of others long ago. Anyhow Riggerrob, have agreat summer and no mals. Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #17 May 23, 2003 Hi Mike: I'd love to do a hook up with you...hi or low. As for the hemp?????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 9 #18 May 23, 2003 Quote Hi Mike: I'd love to do a hook up with you...hi or low. As for the hemp?????? Cool...It would be a great time in the air and on the ground if you ever made it down to visit our little DZ some day. P.S. HEMP is my own national organization developed to poke fun at, the insane direction, I think the sport has moved toward. " I like to have something to argue about when I'm drinking at the campfire".----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #19 May 23, 2003 You mean you cant find something in the great realm of CSPA to argue about? Anyhow, HEMP seems like a good idea. I dont know if or when I could ever get to Nova Scotia. The last time I was there was to fly a hot air balloon on Common Green, and I had a radio announcer doing a traffic report from the basket on a tethered flight. If you ever get to the Toronto area, call me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 9 #20 May 23, 2003 Quote You mean you cant find something in the great realm of CSPA to argue about? What's CSPA? Quote Anyhow, HEMP seems like a good idea. Cool...Bill Cole HEMP#6( I'll note that in my log book!) Quote I dont know if or when I could ever get to Nova Scotia. The last time I was there was to fly a hot air balloon on Common Green, and I had a radio announcer doing a traffic report from the basket on a tethered flight. I'm kinda stuck here too!...raising 3 kids and all. My traveling days are over for 10-15 years. Quote If you ever get to the Toronto area, call me. I lived in Toronto back in '85 before I started jumping. Parkdale area. Had a lot of fun up there! P.S. Hope you get your knees in the breese from time to time. ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #21 May 23, 2003 Mike: I last jumped on June 10th 2000, but am installing new connector links on the risors of my Strato-Cloud, and repacking my reserve. I hope to get a few this year, but living on Government pension doesnt make it easy to come up with the money for travel AND the jump(s). Bill Cole b81, C76,D41 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 9 #22 May 23, 2003 Quote ... but am installing new connector links on the risors of my Strato-Cloud... Sniff, Sniff...Smell that?...Smells like CReW! ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #23 June 15, 2003 I noticed in another thread, someone signed his comments off with " Its better to be pissed off than pissed on". Look at it this way: If someone pissed on you, you are going to be pissed off. Let me show you how that works; Back in 1969, I kinda pissed on some of CSPA's rules....kinda like bent them a bit. CSPA in turn, got pissed off with me and soon I was being pissed ON. As a result, I pissed on some more of CSPA's rules, bending them more often and a little further than the last time. Again, I was pissed on. I set the Canadian High Alt record, and CSPA decided they would piss on me some more by initiating a set of CSPA "records" from much lower than my jump. This is pissing on me from altitude, so I pissed back on them through the press. They didnt like me pissing on them for pissing on me, so the suspended me for a 2nd life term, and pissed on me again. Well, I was pissed off. Several current directors of CSPA have recently said in E Mails to other jumpers, that a girl I dropped was now a para-plegic., or had suffered a broken back.. In truth , the injury she received 31 years ago was a broken tailbone, and was entirely her own doing, as she pulled her legs up on landing. It is a painful injury, but not a serious one. Those E mails pissed me off again, because CSPA was knowingly pissing on me without justification. Now you see how it works. Its much like the Israelis and Palestinians...a vicious circle. I hope you understand...I have to go now, I need a good piss. Bill Cole D-41 CSPA licence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #24 June 15, 2003 Jeez Bill... Sounds like what their putting you through... Hey! I know..."WATER JUMP!!!" that should piss 'em off! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #25 June 15, 2003 airtwardo: Maybe I'll pay em a visit at the 2003 Nationals in Burnaby Ont. Chances are they'll piss on me and that will piss me off. Its a good job I have a bladder like a camel, eh????? I have a friend at the Toronto Sun; maybe he can write about the big piss off contest. LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
