Casch 0 #1 April 9, 2003 I know, I know, "There are NO stupid questions...". But I'm sure you're all sick of answering Downsizing questions. Here it goes anyway; So I started skydiving last August and I have 35 jumps to date. I jump a Skymaster 290. My naked weight is 245lbs and I'm 5'8". I'm definately not a small guy, but I'm working on that (down 15lbs!!!! whoohoo!). Anyway I've been looking around at used gear lately and I am hoping to put together a rig this summer. My accuracy with the Skymaster 290 is pretty good. My first 3 jumps last weekend were in the peas and the next 3 were within 20m. All of them were stand-up landings (for the most part, sometimes I tend to sort of touch down on my butt lightly and pop back up). I would like to get something in the 210-220 range. I would be buying the gear this summer when I have a little more experience. I feel very comfortable with what I'm flying now. I would like to jump a BOC rig, but their smallest is a Silhouette 210. Anyway, any of your oppinions are appreciated, and yes I will be consulting my DZO about it also. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 April 9, 2003 Never, ever buy gear with the idea of growing into it. You probably want to try to stick around a 1:1 wingloading for a while, that would give you the best learning environment (generally speaking).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casch 0 #3 April 9, 2003 I know, like I said I will (hopefully) buy gear this summer and when I do it will be carefully researched (that's what I'm doing now) and it will be the proper rig for where I am skill-wise. About how much would you say a student rig would weight? The rig I'm jumping now is an Infinity container, Skymaster 290 main, Raven-M 290 reserve? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #4 April 9, 2003 QuoteAbout how much would you say a student rig would weight? my guess would be a good 25 pounds and lets just say 20, and put it a bit lower, with that you are 265 out the door. i wouldn't recomend anything below a 250 main for you to buy first. and that would put you at like 1.06. but talk to you instuctors, they know the best, you may be one of those jumpers that can handle a bit more wing loading than most with less jumps, but we really have no idea. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpy 0 #5 April 9, 2003 QuoteQuoteAbout how much would you say a student rig would weight? my guess would be a good 25 pounds i'm thinking a little bit more... considering my racer..phantom 145..and icarus 145 is 10kg.. so thats 22 pounds? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #6 April 9, 2003 Don't forget you also have clothes on and eat during the day! Go with skygod's advice, Don't forget you may feel comfortable onder your current canopy, but you don't have in under control yet, at least when you have bum landings and landings outside the peas, while it was possible (OTHER TRAFFIC!!) to land in the peas. (But our peas is a circle 30m / 90 feet across)The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #7 April 9, 2003 Quotei'm thinking a little bit more... considering my racer..phantom 145..and icarus 145 is 10kg.. so thats 22 pounds? ok, so lets just say it's 35 pounds (high end). that would put him 280 out the door. and then with a 250 main, that is still 1.12, which is still pretty reasonable. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #8 April 9, 2003 to add to that: Don't forget he's already used to a higher wingload form the first jump.....The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Watcher 0 #9 April 9, 2003 Quotei'm thinking a little bit more... considering my racer..phantom 145..and icarus 145 is 10kg.. so thats 22 pounds? Really? My Javelin Odyssey with articulation, my PD 113R and my Velocity 103 only weigh 13.5 lbs. A really large reserve I think is listed around 8lbs. same for the Main. A 235 Monarch (9 Cell ZP main is listed at 6.8 lbs, a 260 Manta at 9.8 lbs. A Javilen J7 I would put around 9-10 lbs. That totals 27 lbs or so. Are racers that heavy? --Jonathan Bartlett D-24876 AFF-I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwilling 0 #10 April 9, 2003 Well, I went right from a 300 (rental) to a 210 (yeah, I bought it)... Okay, I did have over 500 jumps at the time, but had been out of the sport for 17 years when I started jumping again, but the last canopy that I jumped when I quit was a F-111 7 cell, that was like 270sf... and I only made a 1/2 a dozen jumps on the 300 before downsizing. I'm about your weight, 260-265 out the door, and I can honestly tell you that I think it was too big of a downsize for me, and I had a lot more jumps than you when I made it! I made about 60 jumps on that 210 before a shoulder injury (hockey, not skydiving) forced me to sit out again, and I stood up all but one of those jumps, but still... there were some hot, humid, no wind days that I wish I had bought a 230!!! I think you'll be a lot happier (and safer) if you find a good used 230 Sabre, Hornet, or Spectre, and something like a Tempo 250 or PD-253, maybe a PD-235, but I wouldn't go any smaller than that... I have a ride on my PD-193, and can honestly say that if I had to buy again, I'd look for at least a PD-218 (which is the biggest thing that will fit into my current container)... Take all this with a grain of salt though... I'm pretty much a closet canopy nazi, and was surprised to see the shift to smaller canopies when I started jumping again... that and I'm old, and soft landings in all conditions, not speed, is what I'm looking for from my canopy! Good luck, and remember... "There are old skydivers, and there are bold skydivers, but there are no old bold skydivers." "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #11 April 9, 2003 >I feel very comfortable with what I'm flying now. Can you: -flat turn 90 degrees at 50 feet? -flare turn at least 45 degrees? -land crosswind and in no wind? -land reliably within a 10 meter circle? -initiate a high performance landing with double front risers and front riser turn to landing? -land on slight uphills and downhills? -land with rear risers? If so, then you're probably ready to downsize. At your weight, the 290 is a great canopy to learn on - you're at almost 1:1, and at that loading, the canopy is behaving like a 'real' canopy, with a solid flare and enough energy to plane you out (at least, if it's in decent shape.) I'd suggest your next canopy be around a 250 sq ft canopy - a Triathalon, Sabre, Spectre, something along those lines. That will give you a lot of performance without a serious increase in risk. At this point I'd think a 210 would be a really serious increase in risk, and it would scare you enough that you'd be afraid to push it (and thus learn how to fly it.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #12 April 9, 2003 >About how much would you say a student rig would weight? Our rigs (Telesis, Manta usually, Raven, Cypres) weigh 30-35 pounds. We have different sized mains and reserves between 240-300 sq ft; hence the range. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoobieCootie 0 #13 April 9, 2003 Quote My accuracy with the Skymaster 290 is pretty good. My first 3 jumps last weekend were in the peas and the next 3 were within 20m. All of them were stand-up This is very true, and we have video to prove it. Believe the video or your lying eyes, but this kid mind you, swooped a SkyMaster 290. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Biscuit 0 #14 April 9, 2003 Quote Quote My accuracy with the Skymaster 290 is pretty good. My first 3 jumps last weekend were in the peas and the next 3 were within 20m. All of them were stand-up This is very true, and we have video to prove it. Believe the video or your lying eyes, but this kid mind you, swooped a SkyMaster 290. SWEET JOSH!!! The Skymaster 290 never lands that hot for me! Good job! ****************************************** The last mosquito that bit me had to book into the Betty Ford Clinic. -Patsy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #15 April 10, 2003 >The Skymaster 290 never lands that hot for me! Good job! You probably don't load it at almost 1:1, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoobieCootie 0 #16 April 10, 2003 What BillVon is saying... "You're a 110 lb hottie" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casch 0 #17 April 10, 2003 Quote This is very true, and we have video to prove it. Believe the video or your lying eyes, but this kid mind you, swooped a SkyMaster 290. Hey Will thanks for the backup Quote -flat turn 90 degrees at 50 feet? -flare turn at least 45 degrees? -land crosswind and in no wind? -land reliably within a 10 meter circle? -initiate a high performance landing with double front risers and front riser turn to landing? -land on slight uphills and downhills? -land with rear risers? -Yes I can flat turn 90 degrees at 50 feet: A very cool instructor noticed this and told me that I was being dangerous, he said if I tried that with a smaller canopy I would smack in. But I knew what my canopy could do and where my personal boundries are which is why I turned that low (I was aiming for the peas) and I had enough altitude for it. -Yes I can land crosswind and no wind, Kapowsin isn't known for it's regular wind direction so most of the time I end up landing crosswind or with no wind at all. -Yes, IF THERE IS LITTLE TRAFFIC, I can land fairly accurately. I'm now getting used to flying with more traffic. Last time I jumped, several more people than I'm used to, landed in the student field which spooked me so accuracy wasn't my prime objective -NO I can't front riser anything on that 290, I can pull myself up a bit but it does nothing (noticable) -Yes I can land on slight uphills/downhills. The student field isn't exactly flat...it has a few mogules which I have gotten used to. -I haven't tried landing with rear-risers...I asked here on the forums if I should practice landing with rear risers and I was told not to even think about it. But I have planed myself out at altitude and i feel that if a situation called for a rear-riser landing (i.e. broken steering line) I could cut it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #18 April 10, 2003 my progession, take it for what it is worth... I'm 225 out the door titan 260 (7 cell) 200 or so jumps triathalon 210 -- 50 or so sabre 190 a few dozen sabre 170 a few hundred safire 149 a few more hundred crossfire 139 a few hundred velocity 120 - 100+ (still have it) velocity 111 100+ (still have it, it's my favorite of all of them) stick with a bigger canopy. learn how to fly it, do some CrW with it.... it's all good.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #19 April 10, 2003 What is the surface elevation of your DZ and how hot does it get in the summertime? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casch 0 #20 April 10, 2003 About 750 feet and anwhere between 70-90 in the summer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #21 April 10, 2003 OK, so altitude and Tempreture are not much of an issue. The step down from a 290 skymaster to a 210 is a big one. Our students start on 290 Skymasters, then to 230's then 200's, then 190, 170 and from there on down they make their own choices. I'm guessing 230 is the way to go. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casch 0 #22 April 10, 2003 So at this point (after I discuss this with my instructors) I'm wondering if I should see if someone would let me borrow a 250ish and play with that for a while and then consider buying a 230 if I'm comfortable and proficient with the 250. I say this because it seems to be much easier to find a 230 than a 250. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #23 April 10, 2003 Please feel free to PM or email me ([email protected]). There is a lot more information you need than you can receive in a few thread posts. At 6'6" and 240#, started jumping 23 years ago and specialize in helping "Anvil Brothers" with gear choices and how to fly with the "little'uns." ...Bigun "Size Does Matter" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #24 April 10, 2003 You should manage the jump to 230. We have a 100 kg student weight limit (220lbs) and are 5000 feet ASL and 100 - 110F in the summer. All our students manage the move to 230, but usually only get there with about 30 dives. You grasp of canopy control, available altitude, traffic, accuracy etc sounds good. You're not a youngster, are you? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casch 0 #25 April 10, 2003 Quote You're not a youngster, are you Hehe, how'd you know Yeah, I'm 18 and I started last August when I was 17 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
