diverdriver 5 #1 March 4, 2003 I originally posted this under the women's way certification thread. It'a pretty negative post and didn't want to take away from their accomplishment. But I gotta get this off my chest. Quote http://www.fai.org/parachuting/documents/FS_changes_2003.pdf Scroll down to 3.3.3 Largest Formation Records. Excuse me for venting....... THAT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT! So are they going to go back and certify the 259-way at Ottawa 1998 as a world record? It was a complete formation. Held for 2.2 seconds. Hell, even the "unofficial 297" wasn't a complete formation. I think it's demeans the effort of those past if we allow SLOP to count as a world record. Dang it. Why don't we just dump 500 people into the air and build a 400 way. That's a record huh? Man do I think this is a bull shit move. [/rant] You may now resume thinking of me as a level headed and thoughtful person. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #2 March 4, 2003 clicky http://www.fai.org/parachuting/documents/FS_changes_2003.pdf-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #3 March 4, 2003 Chris it does still say: QuoteThe formation must be complete as described with all named personnel in the formation.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #4 March 4, 2003 QuoteChris it does still say: QuoteThe formation must be complete as described with all named personnel in the formation. I know, but without the 3 second rule it's all the same it seems. Just slop. So we might as well just do away with the required grips declared before jumping rule and then just dump as many bodies as possible into the air. See what happens. This is so very disapointing to me. It's like saying "Ok, you will get credit for summiting Mt. Everest even if you ride a helicopter to the top." Just doesn't seem right to me. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katecooper 0 #5 March 4, 2003 Hi Chris FAI has constantly amended rules for all types of Formation Skydiving over the years,. Large Formation records used to have a time limit, they used to have to be held for 5 seconds, then it was 3 seconds. Trust me, your "lost" record isn't the only one, I've been on at least 5 records that were complete and in control, but fell shy of the alloted time limit. Was it a drag? yes, at the time. Did it make the record, when we got it, feel like a greater accomplishment? Yes, it did. Am I a fan of this change? No, I'm not, but ask me that question next time I organize a record and find out that it's held for 2.94 seconds (like the 132 way that preceded the 131 way current womens record) Changes are that, nothing more. They are not meant to detract from past accomplishments nor are they meant to demean future accomplishment. Me? I'll work on having all the records I partake in (or organize) to be held for at least the 5 seconds, because I like that timing, but I'll build the records according to the rules. Let's all proceed to build our skydives safely and in control, and go for the long hold. Heck, the pictures are better that way anyway! :-) blue skies, big blots kate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #6 March 4, 2003 Ok Kate. You're right. Heck, I've only been a jumper on one attempt (SDC 2000) and nothing came close to completing there. But boy did that rub me wrong. I feel that there should be some "control" aspect of the record. Without it at all it seems to take away a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albatross 0 #7 March 4, 2003 Kate I love your attitdue. This was my gripe to begin with and I stand by it. I know that the attempts that hold just short hurt but if the plan is solid and the people are good it will build. You are right that the change is just that a change but this one seems to mess with the integrity of the rule. We have all seen formations that had level issues that held for 1-2 seconds and then fall apart. They are so much less of an accoplishment than the smooth ones that have help. I mean it wouldn't matter what criteria was put on the 300 way or the Woman's record. They were well planned, well executed and a testiment to the people involved. It just seems a shame if one that holds for say .5 seconds eclipses it because someone was strong enough to hold on or that even the concept of control is not mentioned. Just my 2 cents. I don't hate change just this one.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #8 March 4, 2003 You had to guess this was coming after they ruled that Freefly records didn't need to hold for three seconds._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #9 March 4, 2003 So, now maybe people will go for two records: one for the books on numbers, and then one for pride on how long it was held. That would be cool.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katecooper 0 #10 March 4, 2003 I believe the wording does say "in control" somewhere. Of course that is a subjective term at best and depends on the mood and attitude (not to mention morals) of the masses involved. For what it's worth, I've been on records that were held for longer than 3 seconds that I felt were barely "in control" because of waves rippling through them. blue skies, big blots kate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,425 #11 March 4, 2003 The 3 second vs 5 second vs no time at all (i.e. one frame) rule doesn't bother me personally much, but what I worry about is what effect this will have on record attempt organization. A record attempt where, say, a 50 way is built to 49 and the 50th hits it at 15mph is now potentially a valid record, despite the dangers that entails. I don't think this will have any effect on 'real' bigway attempts (George, BJ, Roger etc won't suddenly tolerate momentum docks because of this rule) but I would worry that some of the smaller unofficial records organized by lower-experienced organizers may adopt FAI rules as their standards, and result in more kamikaze docks near breakoff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #12 March 5, 2003 The other problem is that it makes it extremely difficult to ensure you actually have it recorded. For the smaller stuff up you can still look at the video tape and watch it frame by frame, but the larger stuff needs to hold for at least a second or two to make certain one of the camera flyers actually has a photo of it and you can really count all the grips.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
