Hard Cutaway

[AntoniaGravity 0]

Hello,

I have been jumping for about 6 years with about 475 jumps and this weekend had a very interesting low point. I Have a conservative canopy Spectre 190. I'm a big girl about 160 lbs and 5' 10". It was late in the afternoon and after a normal 4 way, I was tracking away and dumped at about 2,300 ft and my ditter would show I had a full opening at 1,700 ft. At this point, it all started to turn and turn and set up line twists. I briefly tried to pull the riser apart.. Briefly and realized this was way out of control. Still time is so distorted in crisis and I swear it was briefly, but any time spent fixing this spinning, twisting is a loosing hand.

I looked, reached for my cutaway handle, pealed it out and pulled, nothing. I looked again. I cursed for having a red rig with a red cutaway handle. Did I have it right? Yes, I did and pulled again and there was a little give. I'm still spinning Finally, I pulled as hard as I ever did.... Back to free fall and no more spinning...I feel a rush of joy. However, the ground is looking very close. I pull my Reserve and my ornage yellow PD reserve is there. I have a few seconds under canopy. I'm over tress but with a 90 deg turn I'm in a clearing. I land and look up, no trace of my main.

Bryan is there is about 3 minutes, But it seems shorter. He has run the DZ truck though about a half mile of fields and wood lot. The sound of his approach is so heartwarming... Skydive Long Island is a great DZ and my friends want to help me and my silly little ass.

OK, I get a lift back and I'm surrounded by friends . "Holy S--T" your were spinning so much and we kept wondering when you were you going to chop it... Then we were wondering when you were going to pull the reserve. It was the lowest deployment they had ever seen. About 300 ft.

I actually feel OK very, very happy to be alive.. No estatic is the right word. I grab my other rig and grab the next lift... Yeah, it was a four way that sort of worked... But I was back in the saddle. Now I start to look for my main. Everyone points in the right direction. Hey what do I know.. I wasn't looking for my main after the cutaway. I was solving my problem... Dino and I search on an ATV.. We find it but it is about 40 ft up in a tree. We return for ropes, poles, etc. So I grab the DZ truck, Gray, tools, etc and return. We get it down, just as the sunset load takes off...

OK what did I learn... alot

When you suck it down, you are trading safety for a few seconds of joy... OK, OK the SIMS says 2,000 ft is the hard deck for C's and D's but why get close to the region of time running out. 3,000 ft ain't a bad tradeoff. Surprise that was my normal dump point. It is my dump point again.

Second, the spin right at opening was propably caused by a brake line that came lose. My rig is an early Vector and I love it but the brakes are stowed with one line loop and velcro. No pockets to trap the handle, until they are released. Gues what I getting as soon as Mike, my rigger can get to it, new brake stowes.

When you get severly twisted lines and they are working there way down to your neck, the tension on the cutaway gets very high. Fast action is essential. Trying to stop the spin and twisting is futile don't hestitate. Look, Peal, PULL.....
....Then pull the reserve

Oh. a small point The spin was just fast enough to twist everthing but my decent was slow enough to not fire my Cypress. I pulled and it must have have fired after than . The closing loop on the resrve was in one piece but the cutter was fired...That expains the low opening altitude of my reserve.

So When you butt is in the harness, don't allow your your brain to slow down. Luck may shine on you but she may be distracted. I think I learned a little about keeping my ass safer. Any comments?

Antonia Gravity

[D22369 0]

When you get severly twisted lines and they are working there way down to your neck, the tension on the cutaway gets very high

---->>As good a testament to getting riser inserts as I have ever heard for ANY canopy, no matter the wingloading.

I am glad it all worked out ........ BRRRRR sounds very close

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[skyflyeratwood 0]

This is the first time I have heard of such a large canopy behaving so badly. I have a pillow reserve and cutaway handle and was thinking about switching at least the cutaway back to the D-ring for ease finding and pulling. Reading your post gives me a little more reasone to do that. I have 170+ jumps and almost never go below 3000... I've never had a cuatway and don't know what my reaction speeds will be.

B.S.

Ever stop to think and forget to start again

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

As good a testament to getting riser inserts as I have ever heard for ANY canopy, no matter the wingloading.

My exact thought when I read this. I have inserts in every set of risers I own and have ever owned. One of my worst spinners was a Lightning loaded at 1.3. Just goes to show, any wing loading can cause cutaway cable binding in the risers.

Mike

[PhreeZone 15]

I'd personally just recomend replacing the original Vector risers with new risers that are Velcro-less and have hard cutaway inserts. Its a very simple fix to prevent this type of issue in the future.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Hooknswoop 19]

A few questions:

Do you have riser inserts?

What type of risers, mini or standard?

When was the last time the 3-rings were 'massaged' to prevent them from taking a 'set'?

When was tha last time the cutaway cables had been cleaned?

What was used to clean the cutaway cables?

Do the cutaway cables have any 'kinks' or sharp bends in them?

How old are the risers and are they manufactured to current specs?

Derek

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

This is the first time I have heard of such a large canopy behaving so badly. I have a pillow reserve and cutaway handle and was thinking about switching at least the cutaway back to the D-ring for ease finding and pulling. Reading your post gives me a little more reasone to do that. I have 170+ jumps and almost never go below 3000... I've never had a cuatway and don't know what my reaction speeds will be.

B.S.

It can happen to any size canopy. I jump a 245 sw. ft. 7 cell and several years ago has it spool up enough to force my head forward. The cutaway and reserve pull went off without a hitch. What I was worried about was centrifugal force keeping me from bring my hands up to the handles.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[trumpetfish 0]

Sounds really scary. Glad it all worked out. Im new to the sport and agree fully with your comment on trading a few extra seconds of ff for safety. I can't ever imagine pulling lower than 3k. I pull at 3,5 k and can't ever see myself doing otherwise. What's the point ? ? ? , there's always the next jump right ?

[poohbeer 0]

Quote

Do you have riser inserts?

What type of risers, mini or standard?
How old are the risers and are they manufactured to current specs?

What are riser inserts?
What difference would mini or standard risers make in this case?
What has age of the risers got to do with it? And are old risers by definition made by old specs so not to current specs?

(not being disrespectfull, just curious)

------- SIGNATURE BELOW -------
Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[Hooknswoop 19]

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What are riser inserts?

Housings similar to cutaway cable housings, except smaller, that go into the channel on the back of the rear riser for the excess cutaway cable to go into. The prevent hard pulls by keeping the cables from gripping each other if the risers are twisted and from the channel gripping the cables.

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at difference would mini or standard risers make in this case?

Standard 3-ring risers are more efficent, lowering cutaway froces.

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What has age of the risers got to do with it? And are old risers by definition made by old specs so not to current specs?

Not all, but a lot of older risers are not up to current specs, which can increase cutaway forces.

Derek

[poohbeer 0]

Quote

Housings similar to cutaway cable housings, except smaller, that go into the channel on the back of the rear riser for the excess cutaway cable to go into. The prevent hard pulls by keeping the cables from gripping each other if the risers are twisted and from the channel gripping the cables.

Any pictures or drawings to clarify that a bit?
Rear riser? Euhm.. always thought there were only 2 risers and they were beside eachothers
Cutaway cable.. isn't that routed through the harnass/container? Far away from any risers next to your head?

------- SIGNATURE BELOW -------
Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[Hooknswoop 19]

There are 4 risers, 2 front and 2 rear. The left and right riser groups are one assembly.

Right, the cutaway cables are routed through the harness/container, through housings. After going through the white locking loop on the 3-ring, the cutaway cables go into channels on the back of each rear riser. If the line twists include the risers, they can also include the excess cutaway cables in the rear risers, causing a hard or impossible cutaway. Housings, similar to, but smaller in diameter than cutaway cable housings (some are plastic), can be put in the channels on the rear risers to protect the excess cutaway cables from binding together.

Cutaway cables and risers must be maintained, along with inserts installed, to keep cutaway forces low.

Derek

[poohbeer 0]

Quote

There are 4 risers, 2 front and 2 rear. The left and right riser groups are one assembly.

Right, the cutaway cables are routed through the harness/container, through housings. After going through the white locking loop on the 3-ring, the cutaway cables go into channels on the back of each rear riser. If the line twists include the risers, they can also include the excess cutaway cables in the rear risers, causing a hard or impossible cutaway. Housings, similar to, but smaller in diameter than cutaway cable housings (some are plastic), can be put in the channels on the rear risers to protect the excess cutaway cables from binding together.

Damn, this forum and it's users are great.
Totaly logical that the cutaway goes up to the 3 rings system and even a bit further.. was thinking about reserve cable which obviously closes (or not) the reserve container.

BUT, howcome these extra even smaller cutawaycable-like housings stop a twist if thicker cutaway cable can't? Or are there many of these smaller ones in one riser?


(hope I'm not starting to sound thickheaded but I need to understand the bits before I understand the whole)

------- SIGNATURE BELOW -------
Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[billvon 2,466]

>howcome these extra even smaller cutawaycable-like housings stop
> a twist if thicker cutaway cable can't? Or are there many of these
> smaller ones in one riser?

The regular cutaway cable housings Derek was referring to are the ones in your rig. They work pretty well. "Regular" risers do not have any hard housings in them; there is just a channel where the excess cutaway cable goes. If you twist up the channel it traps the cutaway cable and the cutaway is more difficult (or impossible.) You can insert a small piece of cutaway cable housing inside that channel; the housing is rigid enough that it will not trap the cutaway cable even if the risers are twisted.

[Casch 0]

You want to have as little friction as possible in your cutaway system. Idealy the only force you should have to overcome is the velcro holding the handle in. The reason riser inserts are so important is if you happen to get line twists that go all the way down the risers, the extra length of cutaway cables that run up the risers get "squeezed" in the linetwists, creating a crapload of friction. With the metal housings, the housings get twisted up with the risers, but the cutaway cables inside of them are perfectly fine.

[poohbeer 0]

ok, thanks, I understand

------- SIGNATURE BELOW -------
Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[Tonigravity 0]

Wow, I didn't realize how much attaention this would get..

Rsier inserts Yes
I have standard Risers
I rotate then every time I do my Cypress
Cleaning the cutaway cables... No Good point
The riser date back to the mid Nineties

Antonia

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Rsier inserts Yes

Awesome

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I have standard Risers

This helps a bit

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I rotate then every time I do my Cypress

Rotating the rings does nothing and may actually be a bad idea. Flex the risers at the 3-ring prevents the webbing frm taking on a 'set'

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Cleaning the cutaway cables... No Good point

Cleaning the cables is probably the single most important thing to do to keep cutaway forces low. I have picked rig up by the cutaway handle with the Velcro peeled and the cables didn't come out of the housings because they were so dirty. A quick cleaning and they slipped out easily.

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The riser date back to the mid Nineties

You should think seriously about replacing them. At the very least go to Relative Workshop's web site and compare your risers to the pictures they have. If they aren't very close, replace them. The biggest offender is the white locking loop being too short.

Derek