Hummusx 0 #1 October 7, 2003 This weekend I got to thinking a bit about landing and wind direction. Let's say you find yourself unable to make a landing into the wind for whatever reason. If your only two choices were 90 degrees across the wind or straight downwind, which do you take? Does it depend on how much wind there is? I'd love to hear the voice of experience. ____________________________________ It’s like selling a million grills all at the same time…with extended warranties. -Hank Hill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #2 October 7, 2003 If you are too close to the ground FORGET about turning. Landing safe is more important than landing into the wind or at the DZ.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifics 0 #3 October 7, 2003 I have had to make a downwind landing with about 8mph conditions. I messed up my pattern and had no choice but to land. I was going semi fast and just slid across my butt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casch 0 #4 October 7, 2003 I would rather land downwind than crosswind, but if you don't have the choice to land into the wind, you probably don't have a whole lot of chances to choose anyway, so land wherever you're headed...while avoided obstacles obviously Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #5 October 7, 2003 I think it depends on how much run out area you're talking about and how strong the winds are. All things being equal I think the cross-wind landing is a bit easier on the body if you biff in and a non-issue if you're experienced.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karlm 0 #6 October 7, 2003 JUst remember the priorities of landing when you find yourself in such a situation. - Land with a level wing (no turn) - Land in a open area - Flair - Preferably into wind. I have found myself on a long spot, and on getting back realized I was going to be short. I had checked the wind direction before take-off and did a 90 turn to land cross wind, as a into wind landing would have meant two things 1. landing in a turn. 2. Landing into a power line. I would suggest getting as much into the wind as possible without putting your health at risk, and be pre paired for a rough landing, get you PLF ready and flair. Rather walk off from a out safe landing than being carried off, for trying to get back to the DZ and making a last minute turn. Better never to have met you in my dream than to wake and reach for hands that are not there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #7 October 7, 2003 Oh, believe me -- I remember on every skydive. Unfortunately, that doesn't address the question posed by the original poster. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #8 October 7, 2003 This last weekend I was doing intentional downwind landings under a demo reserve loaded at 1.7 in 20mph winds. They were fun! I was hauling ass.... Thanks Kolla! Personally, I find downwind landings easier then crosswinds. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shmali 0 #9 October 7, 2003 Personally i have had 3 downwind landings since i started skydiving this past july. my first one was at jump 12, it was light winds (i was doing a hop and pop) and i misread the windflag so i ended up just barely missing the tarmac and hitting some dirt/rocks inbetween taxi way. Scartched my hand up but otherwise it was ok. I bought gloves to help avoid any further incidents and things were well until around jump 27, this time i just completely messed up wind direction and by the time i figured it out i was 20 ft off the asphalt and it hurt. I had a partial plf that ended up turning into a belly slide because i 'stopped flying' the canopy (ironically enough i had taken my gloves off because i felt i was doing that much better lately). Last incident was 2 weeks ago on jump 39, i set my pattern a little shallow and found myself facing oncoming traffic, by the time i corrected and got out of the way i was too low to comfortably turn around to come back so i just got over grass, flared pulled up my legs and ran it in. Most everyone i have spoken to has said that landing crosswind is better than landing downwind(if you don't know what you're doing) And i agree, even a little wind resistance might have helped my first 2 mishaps, but i guess you should do what you feel most comfortable doing (without putting yourself at greater risk). If you are more comfortable landing downwind than crosswind then land downwind. just know before hand what to expect Pineappe Death Juice, If you have to ask you'd rather not know! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chronistin 0 #10 October 7, 2003 QuoteI would rather land downwind than crosswind, Doesn't that depend on the type of canopy, too? I don't have a problem landing my Nitro crosswind, rather than downwind, while at a landing with a square I'd probably go downwind. or am I completely wrong here? Chronistin (Home @ http://www.fallschirmspringer.net/) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casch 0 #11 October 7, 2003 I think it all depends on your skill with the gear you're jumping, and what your comfortable with. But the fact still stands that if you are too low to turn, don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #12 October 7, 2003 Remember that landing cross wind is the same speed as landing in no wind (assuming it's directly cross wind). That is SIGNIFICANTLY slower than downwind. Either way should be fine, just be ready with a PLF and remember not to stick those arms out to stop a fall (will turn you in that direction and could break something). As already pointed out the most important thing is landing with the wing level. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #13 October 7, 2003 what would elliptical/square have to do with it? Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #14 October 7, 2003 QuoteI think it all depends on your skill with the gear you're jumping, and what your comfortable with. But the fact still stands that if you are too low to turn, don't. ***I completely agree. I'm comfortable landing my canopy in a direction, but of course I always try to land with the traffic pattern (left hand pattern into the wind).I have found that in learning higher performance landings I sometimes find myself too low to start or finish a turn.I will certainly go down or crosswind in order to save my ass. Low turns kill. ------------------------------------------------------Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #15 October 7, 2003 You land into the wind to get the slowest possible ground speed at touch down, right? My rule of thumb would then be: "Land into the direction the wind is coming from as much as you can WITH THE WING LEVEL!" Crosswind will give you a slower ground speed than downwind. Just be sure to be ready to PLF, and don't "reach" for the ground, as that will usualy cause a turn.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hummusx 0 #16 October 7, 2003 Yes, I'm aware of the dangers of low turns, etc. The answers that I'm looking for (and have gotten a few of) are pertaining specifically to times when you are unable to turn into the wind, whether that be a consequence of altitude or some other factor. Obviously I have had some landings that were not exactly into the wind (slightly off to one side or the other), but I have no idea what landing across a 15mph wind would be like, especially if there were gusts. I also have no idea what a downwind landing would be like under those conditions. ____________________________________ It’s like selling a million grills all at the same time…with extended warranties. -Hank Hill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chronistin 0 #17 October 7, 2003 Quotewhat would elliptical/square have to do with it? I experienced that an elliptical canopy is less likely to be turned from its heading by wind influence. on the other hand, this may result from the fact that I only jumped huge squares, while my current wingloading is a nice 1.2 Chronistin (Home @ http://www.fallschirmspringer.net/) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #18 October 7, 2003 FYI no canopy is turned by wind influence. The canopy is only aware of it's relative air. The turn you describe is created by jumpers responding to the their sideways movement over the ground, not the canopy being turned by the wind. It's a common mistake to make, and the poor landing that results is normally (incorrectly) blamed on the canopy turning, not the jumper turning the canopy (real reason). The situation is easily remedied by inducing a slight turn into the ground winds, which will keep the canopy flight "straight" over the ground (independant of canopy type). Just thought I'd clear that up. Hope this helps. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #19 October 7, 2003 Quote The situation is easily remedied by inducing a slight turn into the ground winds, which will keep the canopy flight "straight" over the ground (independant of canopy type). The proper name for this is "crabbing". The amount of crab is a function of trigonometry and is a basic skill that should be learned by all pilots.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #20 October 7, 2003 Yep - thanks for the official terminology. Knew I should have put that in there Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #21 October 7, 2003 One more slight picky technical note. When crabbing, the canopy is not "turning" into the wind but rather is "heading" into the wind. Turning implies that continous input (other than slight course corrections) is required, but the canopy really has no idea which way it's heading, so the intial heading is really all that's required.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,635 #22 October 7, 2003 QuoteFYI no canopy is turned by wind influence. The canopy is only aware of it's relative air. Just thought I'd clear that up. Hope this helps. Blue skies Ian A canopy can most certainly be turned by wind shear. Wind shear is common near the ground.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chronistin 0 #23 October 7, 2003 QuoteJust thought I'd clear that up. Hope this helps. It really does. thanks. Chronistin (Home @ http://www.fallschirmspringer.net/) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #24 October 7, 2003 Funny, my canopy doesn't suddenly turn when I pass through strong uppers doing different directions. All I'm saying is that most botched crosswind landings are not because of the wind, but rather the pilots response to the ground movement. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,635 #25 October 7, 2003 QuoteFunny, my canopy doesn't suddenly turn when I pass through strong uppers doing different directions. Blue skies Ian[/reply} Maybe yours doesn't, but you said "NO CANOPY".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
diablopilot 2 #15 October 7, 2003 You land into the wind to get the slowest possible ground speed at touch down, right? My rule of thumb would then be: "Land into the direction the wind is coming from as much as you can WITH THE WING LEVEL!" Crosswind will give you a slower ground speed than downwind. Just be sure to be ready to PLF, and don't "reach" for the ground, as that will usualy cause a turn.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hummusx 0 #16 October 7, 2003 Yes, I'm aware of the dangers of low turns, etc. The answers that I'm looking for (and have gotten a few of) are pertaining specifically to times when you are unable to turn into the wind, whether that be a consequence of altitude or some other factor. Obviously I have had some landings that were not exactly into the wind (slightly off to one side or the other), but I have no idea what landing across a 15mph wind would be like, especially if there were gusts. I also have no idea what a downwind landing would be like under those conditions. ____________________________________ It’s like selling a million grills all at the same time…with extended warranties. -Hank Hill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chronistin 0 #17 October 7, 2003 Quotewhat would elliptical/square have to do with it? I experienced that an elliptical canopy is less likely to be turned from its heading by wind influence. on the other hand, this may result from the fact that I only jumped huge squares, while my current wingloading is a nice 1.2 Chronistin (Home @ http://www.fallschirmspringer.net/) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #18 October 7, 2003 FYI no canopy is turned by wind influence. The canopy is only aware of it's relative air. The turn you describe is created by jumpers responding to the their sideways movement over the ground, not the canopy being turned by the wind. It's a common mistake to make, and the poor landing that results is normally (incorrectly) blamed on the canopy turning, not the jumper turning the canopy (real reason). The situation is easily remedied by inducing a slight turn into the ground winds, which will keep the canopy flight "straight" over the ground (independant of canopy type). Just thought I'd clear that up. Hope this helps. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #19 October 7, 2003 Quote The situation is easily remedied by inducing a slight turn into the ground winds, which will keep the canopy flight "straight" over the ground (independant of canopy type). The proper name for this is "crabbing". The amount of crab is a function of trigonometry and is a basic skill that should be learned by all pilots.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #20 October 7, 2003 Yep - thanks for the official terminology. Knew I should have put that in there Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #21 October 7, 2003 One more slight picky technical note. When crabbing, the canopy is not "turning" into the wind but rather is "heading" into the wind. Turning implies that continous input (other than slight course corrections) is required, but the canopy really has no idea which way it's heading, so the intial heading is really all that's required.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #22 October 7, 2003 QuoteFYI no canopy is turned by wind influence. The canopy is only aware of it's relative air. Just thought I'd clear that up. Hope this helps. Blue skies Ian A canopy can most certainly be turned by wind shear. Wind shear is common near the ground.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chronistin 0 #23 October 7, 2003 QuoteJust thought I'd clear that up. Hope this helps. It really does. thanks. Chronistin (Home @ http://www.fallschirmspringer.net/) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #24 October 7, 2003 Funny, my canopy doesn't suddenly turn when I pass through strong uppers doing different directions. All I'm saying is that most botched crosswind landings are not because of the wind, but rather the pilots response to the ground movement. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #25 October 7, 2003 QuoteFunny, my canopy doesn't suddenly turn when I pass through strong uppers doing different directions. Blue skies Ian[/reply} Maybe yours doesn't, but you said "NO CANOPY".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
