dkf1979 0 #1 December 5, 2003 I have 3 jumps. 1 tandem, and two static line jumps. On my last jump, the wind was gusting up to 20 mph. So when we jumped, we jumped way up wind. We held facing into the wind the whole ride back to the DZ. Which was kinda weird not being able to see the DZ the whole ride. But was good experience I guess. My other jumps I was able to go where I wanted. This time, i was full speed ahead.... but going backwards!!! Anyway, about 300 feet (I guess) off the ground, I kept feeling my canopy just drop. It seemed as if there was very little tension in my lines. As if there was no air under my canopy. It did it probably 3-4 times. It was really an uneasy feeling. It seemed to feel more stable when i pulled half brakes. But I was about to **** my pants in fear it was going to colapse. What was causing this. I've read of turbulence from large builings or trees. But the only buildings around me were the hangers behind me, which were downwind. And the closest thing upwind of me was probably an easy mile away, and that was trees. Archway skydiving is in Vandalia, IL. FARMLAND!! So the surrounding land is almost obstacle free. Why was my canopy dropping like that? I think i'm going to stick to sun shiny, 5-10 mph wind days. http://bodypilot.bounceme.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #2 December 5, 2003 QuoteI have 3 jumps. 1 tandem, and two static line jumps. On my last jump, the wind was gusting up to 20 mph. What is the source of the 20 mph gust info? Is the DZ a USPA GM DZ? Does the DZ have a waiver to exceed the BSR maximum winds for students of 14 mph (with a square reserve)? If yes, does the waiver allow students to jump in 20 mph winds? QuoteWhy was my canopy dropping like that? Gusty winds and turbulence can cause what you describe. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 December 5, 2003 You can and will get wind turbulance from gusty winds. That's how our own Jessica broke herself a couple weeks ago. You should read your SIM (check uspa.org) to read what are allowed winds for student jumpers in accordance to the BSR. Also, you say when you're ok to jump. If the winds make you uncomfortable, then you shouldn't be forced to jump. However, the winds won't always be nice and calm (0-5mph), you will end up jumping in some wind. Read your SIM, talk to your instructors about your concerns, they should be able to explain what you need to know and keep you on track for your student program. Good luck!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dkf1979 0 #4 December 5, 2003 I did ask when they call it quits. And just ground the students. I was told that the winds can not be gusting more than 20 mph. And the student must be able to see the ground from the plane. Meaning the clouds must be higher than exit altitude.http://bodypilot.bounceme.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #5 December 5, 2003 QuoteI was told that the winds can not be gusting more than 20 mph. To be backing up, in gusty winds up to 20 mph on your 3rd jump is unacceptable. No student should be put in that position. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dkf1979 0 #6 December 5, 2003 Whoa! I didn't expect this type of reactions. All in all my jump went great. Another stand up landing!! 2 for 2!! Actually there were a total of 4 student planes going up. My friend had taken the first jump course that day and we asked to go up together, so they bumped us back to last of the 4. The first 2 planes full of students, we stood there and watched all the students floating, backwards, right past the DZ and into the surrounding cornfields. I felt fortunate to be the last as to they would have the spotting down pat by the time they got to me!!! http://bodypilot.bounceme.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #7 December 5, 2003 2004 Skydiver's Information Manual A United States Parachute Association Publication ------------------------------------------------------------ Section 2: Basic Safety Requirements and Waivers Contents: Summary Section 2-1: Basic Safety Requirements Section 2-2: Waivers to the Basic Safety Requirements * * * F. Winds [S] Maximum ground winds 1. For all solo students a. 14 mph for ram-air canopies b. 10 mph for round reserves 2. For licensed skydivers are unlimited http://www.uspa.org/publications/SIM/2004SIM/section2.htm#21f -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #8 December 5, 2003 Mmmm... Gusts, turbulence. Yummy. I try to ignore these (up high) and just keep on flying like I would if the air were smoove. All my issues with chunky air under canopy have so far been psychological; the actual amount of swaying, rocking, bumping, uncommanded turning, and recovery diving has been minimal. I just trust that the harness will continue to hold me and the canopy will continue flying. (If I notice I'm in genuine freefall again, I'll re-evalute this.) Due to minor turbulence on landing I've had a couple of low flares plus a few just-in-case PLFs. No matter what happens on a jump, I try to hit the ground as softly as possible. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JKT 0 #9 December 5, 2003 QuoteWhoa! I didn't expect this type of reactions. All in all my jump went great. Another stand up landing!! 2 for 2!! Actually there were a total of 4 student planes going up. My friend had taken the first jump course that day and we asked to go up together, so they bumped us back to last of the 4. The first 2 planes full of students, we stood there and watched all the students floating, backwards, right past the DZ and into the surrounding cornfields. I felt fortunate to be the last as to they would have the spotting down pat by the time they got to me!!! I would look for a new DZ - one that isn't going to get you either seriously injured or killed.----- Official 100 jump wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #10 December 5, 2003 QuoteQuoteI was told that the winds can not be gusting more than 20 mph. To be backing up, in gusty winds up to 20 mph on your 3rd jump is unacceptable. No student should be put in that position. Derek Exactly. No student, which is defined as anyone not possessing at least a USPA A-license, my jump when ground winds are more than 14mph. Yes, that includes gusts. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #11 December 5, 2003 >I didn't expect this type of reactions. All in all my jump went great Didn't you say: "But I was about to **** my pants in fear it was going to colapse." You were right to almost poop. I put myself in a wheelchair by doing that, and Jessica just broke her pelvis jumping on a day like that. Do you really want to risk that? >What was causing this. I've read of turbulence from large builings or >trees. But the only buildings around me were the hangers behind >me, which were downwind. Even lines of trees far away, power poles, and low hills can cause turbulence. Even the air itself can be turbulent; thunderstorms come from cubic miles of warm, turbulent air rising through cooler air. Fortunately nothing bad happened, and you learned a lesson - do NOT jump when winds are high, or when anything else about the jump makes you uncomfortable. If your instructors insist that you do, find another DZ immediately. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinfree 0 #12 December 6, 2003 I can guarantee that the instructors did not insist on him jumping in those conditions...rather it was probably him begging to be able to jump. This DZ is my home DZ and the safest in the area. I know of many students turned away on windy days here. We all know that conditions change on the ride to altitude, even on the way to 3500' for a static line jump... Please don't be so quick to blame the DZ. Also take into account that he only has 3 jumps!!! How much does he really know...about the actual conditions while he was in the air... yes he may have been backing up... but at a .76 wing loading he would back up in 14 mph winds. Sometime you give way to much credence to these low timers...take what they say with a grain of salt...they can tend to exaggerate... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #13 December 6, 2003 QuoteWe all know that conditions change on the ride to altitude, even on the way to 3500' for a static line jump... Please don't be so quick to blame the DZ. Apparently the winds didn't change in this case: QuoteActually there were a total of 4 student planes going up. My friend had taken the first jump course that day and we asked to go up together, so they bumped us back to last of the 4. The first 2 planes full of students, we stood there and watched all the students floating, backwards, right past the DZ and into the surrounding cornfields. I felt fortunate to be the last as to they would have the spotting down pat by the time they got to me!!! QuoteI did ask when they call it quits. And just ground the students. I was told that the winds can not be gusting more than 20 mph QuoteI can guarantee that the instructors did not insist on him jumping in those conditions...rather it was probably him begging to be able to jump. Doesn't matter how much the student begs to go, if the winds are unacceptable, you don't take take them up. To do so is a violation of the BSR's and/or Instructor ethics. QuoteAlso take into account that he only has 3 jumps!!! How much does he really know...about the actual conditions while he was in the air... He knows enough to see students backing up under canopy. If the students are backing up under canopy, it doesn't matter what the winds are, they are too strong. QuoteSometime you give way to much credence to these low timers...take what they say with a grain of salt...they can tend to exaggerate... Which part was he exaggerating? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kwmontreal 0 #14 December 8, 2003 I would say you were in P**P territory. There is enought stress when students and much info to remember. Throw in 20 mph winds and we looking at (in my ever not so humble opinion) rolling the dice. At our DZ we start scratching our heads and evaluate each individual student when the winds hit 10mph. When the winds hit 14 mph we ground all student gear and any nonlicenced jumpers. Its just not worth it. Walk away and jump another day! Jump safe. Kent----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------JUMP SAFE! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mojosme 0 #15 December 9, 2003 This thread seems to have deviated from the poster's original question about winds and his canopies behavior. Speaking as a former USPA instuctor, I've never witnessed any activities at the above mentioned DZ that would ever put a student in harms way. Finger pointing doesn't educate anyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #16 December 9, 2003 QuoteThis thread seems to have deviated from the poster's original question about winds and his canopies behavior. Speaking as a former USPA instuctor, I've never witnessed any activities at the above mentioned DZ that would ever put a student in harms way. Finger pointing doesn't educate anyone. I think the thread is still on track. The orginal poster was concered that on his 3rd skydive; "On my last jump, the wind was gusting up to 20 mph" and "I kept feeling my canopy just drop. It seemed as if there was very little tension in my lines. As if there was no air under my canopy. It did it probably 3-4 times. It was really an uneasy feeling." He asked; "What was causing this."[?] The cause of that uneasyness was the conditions he was jumping in, which he shouldn't have been jumping in. The jumper and any other student that has read this thread has been educated that jumping in winds gusting to 20 mph, or backing up under canopy, is a violation of the BSR's. That BSR is there for a reason, as the orginal poster discovered. QuoteI've never witnessed any activities at the above mentioned DZ that would ever put a student in harms way. Are you saying this situation didn't happen or that the student was not put in harm's way? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,435 #17 December 9, 2003 >This thread seems to have deviated from the poster's original >question about winds and his canopies behavior. I don't think it really has. He experienced what sounds like a normal canopy reaction to the turbulence created by high winds; the best way to avoid problems associated with high winds is to stay on the ground, which I think is the #1 lesson concerning his jump. A student cannot always make that call, and so must rely on his instructors to make the call for him. It sounds like that may not have happened in this case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #18 December 9, 2003 QuoteWhy was my canopy dropping like that? I think i'm going to stick to sun shiny, 5-10 mph wind days. Laugh I never used to mind turbulence on airplanes until I started skydiving. Now, after flying my canopy around in turbulence, I hate it! The feeling you have in those conditions is caused by a few things. The most common are canopy deflation/inflation ("breathing") and line slack. When you are flying in "normal" conditions, you are inside the airmass, moving with it, and the air inflates all 7 or 9 cells of your canopy more or less with even pressure. When gusty conditions cause some cells in your canopy to have less pressure than other cells, the cells with less pressure will deflate some, and the overall size of the canopy will decrease. The "big-square" canopy will become "less big-probably still square". Since the canopy is smaller for a short time, it will have less lift. Combine that with pressure changes in the air around the canopy, caused by gusting winds, and you will feel a short drop. When the cells pressurize again, the canopy will get back to it's normal (bigger) size. All of this happens fairly quickly, but if you look up at the canopy in turbulence, you will often see it shrinking and expanding like an accordian - we call this "breathing". Some canopies have features, such as airlocks, that inhibit air from escaping the cells, so you don't lose as much lift in those conditions, and the distance dropped from breathing is reduced. I fly an airlock canopy specifically because I don't like turbulence. Under "normal" flight, the tension on your lines is caused by your body weight suspended underneath the canopy. Sometimes the canopy over your head also gets pushed down by the gust of wind, and that line tension will be less, causing the lines to "slack". You will also feel a drop here, as gravity pulls you back down to get back to equilibrium. There's no canopy design that I know of that can prevent line-slack. It's a good idea not to fly in these downdraft conditions - I've seen people get broken badly from downdrafts on landing. Also I agree with the others. If your instructors let you jump in 20 MPH and gusting wind and the pilot let you out way upwind to compensate, then they made a mistake. Doesn't matter if they are USPA dropzone or not - no student with 3 jumps should be expected to land safely in those conditions.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ira 0 #19 December 9, 2003 Everyone needs to take a look at the whole situation. People are jumping to conclusions without all of the information and the advice being given frankly is a bit offending. Let me start by saying that Archway is my home DZ and I have never felt unsafe with anything done there. On the contrary, I am extremely confident in their safety record and the quality of the staff. Here are some facts that posters aren't aware of: Archway has a Waiver of the wind BSR and has for 10 years, people are jumping to conclusions without knowing this. The regional director of the USPA resides at Archway. If the S&TA and the regional director don't have a problem then just maybe they and their 8000+ combined jumps were a bit more aware of the situation than some of the people who have posted in this thread. I personally know they won't let a student jump in unsafe winds. I was on a 182 load with a student and landed with the plane because the winds changed on the ride to altitude and were questionable for the student. I would encourage Dan to speak to the staff members at Archway. They can answer the questions he has and let him know why he experienced what he did. They are also going to be his instructors and jumpmasters over the next 20+ jumps and it will help him to get to know them and the fact that they are very good at what they do. Everyone needs to look at Dereks Sig line. It says "Think" well in this situation a lot more people need to act on that advice. Before jumping to a conclusion and making a new jumper more nervous with the unfounded statements to find a new DZ, THINK. Do you know all the facts? If you don't, then don't jump to a conclusion and give advice that isn't justified. Ira Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #20 December 9, 2003 Are you saying he wasn't backing up under canopy? Or are you saying that a student on their 3rd jump backing up under canopy is not un-safe? Are you saying that Archway has a waiver to 20-mph winds for students? As for RD's and S & TA's, they don't impress me much. I have seen a RD do nothing about a DZO doing AFF w/o an AFFI rating. I have seen an S & TA take an AFF student up and the sun had gone down before take-off. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyyhi 0 #21 December 9, 2003 Derek, I agree with you. . .I am a newbie jumper and have made only 5 jumps. . .my JMs ALWAYS walk me out on the landing area to watch the first load come down. We talk about the wind conditions and what to do should the winds shift. I feel EXTREMELY confident when i go up in the plane with my JMs. I sat out for a whole day waiting for the wind gusts to die down on an otherwise gorgeous day. Even when the gusts had died to 15 mph, they would not take me up. It was very comforting to know they had my best interests - as well as their own - in mind. I never want to feel like I cannot handle the jump conditions. I take my lead from those at my drop zone that are much more experienced than I am. Elsinore is known for its wind gusts. . .I am thankful everyone there takes it seriously and keeps us students safe. . .(now if I could just figure out how to land on my feet. . .everything would be perfect).________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,435 #22 December 9, 2003 >If the S&TA and the regional director don't have a problem then just > maybe they and their 8000+ combined jumps were a bit more aware > of the situation than some of the people who have posted in this > thread. The issue isn't what we think happened; the issue is what Dan _said_ happened. According to him, a few loads of students went up and they all backed up. Then he went up and backed up (not suprisingly.) I can see you having a point if you claim he's lying, but it doesn't sound like you are. (Are you?) BTW at Otay we have perhaps 30,000 jumps between the instructors there, and we won't put up someone when the winds would cause them to back up. A light student might be in the air as winds came up and caused her to back up, but can't imagine a scenario where we might decide that's OK beforehand. >I was on a 182 load with a student and landed with the plane > because the winds changed on the ride to altitude and were > questionable for the student. It would be interesting to learn what happened in this case, then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #23 December 10, 2003 QuoteI have seen a RD do nothing about a DZO doing AFF w/o an AFFI rating. Was the DZO qualified to make the jump? There's more to being an instructor than flipping a $20.00 to the USPA. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #24 December 10, 2003 QuoteWas the DZO qualified to make the jump? He wasn't uncurrent, but had never been an AFFI or passed an AFFCC. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #25 December 10, 2003 I see your point. I wouldn't have thought it such a big deal if it was simply a matter of not renewing his rating. The course, I assume, is meant to teach and reinforce certain time tested teaching and survival methods that might not be obvious to even the most experienced skydiver. In this case, Hook, I support your viewpoint. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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Hooknswoop 19 #16 December 9, 2003 QuoteThis thread seems to have deviated from the poster's original question about winds and his canopies behavior. Speaking as a former USPA instuctor, I've never witnessed any activities at the above mentioned DZ that would ever put a student in harms way. Finger pointing doesn't educate anyone. I think the thread is still on track. The orginal poster was concered that on his 3rd skydive; "On my last jump, the wind was gusting up to 20 mph" and "I kept feeling my canopy just drop. It seemed as if there was very little tension in my lines. As if there was no air under my canopy. It did it probably 3-4 times. It was really an uneasy feeling." He asked; "What was causing this."[?] The cause of that uneasyness was the conditions he was jumping in, which he shouldn't have been jumping in. The jumper and any other student that has read this thread has been educated that jumping in winds gusting to 20 mph, or backing up under canopy, is a violation of the BSR's. That BSR is there for a reason, as the orginal poster discovered. QuoteI've never witnessed any activities at the above mentioned DZ that would ever put a student in harms way. Are you saying this situation didn't happen or that the student was not put in harm's way? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #17 December 9, 2003 >This thread seems to have deviated from the poster's original >question about winds and his canopies behavior. I don't think it really has. He experienced what sounds like a normal canopy reaction to the turbulence created by high winds; the best way to avoid problems associated with high winds is to stay on the ground, which I think is the #1 lesson concerning his jump. A student cannot always make that call, and so must rely on his instructors to make the call for him. It sounds like that may not have happened in this case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #18 December 9, 2003 QuoteWhy was my canopy dropping like that? I think i'm going to stick to sun shiny, 5-10 mph wind days. Laugh I never used to mind turbulence on airplanes until I started skydiving. Now, after flying my canopy around in turbulence, I hate it! The feeling you have in those conditions is caused by a few things. The most common are canopy deflation/inflation ("breathing") and line slack. When you are flying in "normal" conditions, you are inside the airmass, moving with it, and the air inflates all 7 or 9 cells of your canopy more or less with even pressure. When gusty conditions cause some cells in your canopy to have less pressure than other cells, the cells with less pressure will deflate some, and the overall size of the canopy will decrease. The "big-square" canopy will become "less big-probably still square". Since the canopy is smaller for a short time, it will have less lift. Combine that with pressure changes in the air around the canopy, caused by gusting winds, and you will feel a short drop. When the cells pressurize again, the canopy will get back to it's normal (bigger) size. All of this happens fairly quickly, but if you look up at the canopy in turbulence, you will often see it shrinking and expanding like an accordian - we call this "breathing". Some canopies have features, such as airlocks, that inhibit air from escaping the cells, so you don't lose as much lift in those conditions, and the distance dropped from breathing is reduced. I fly an airlock canopy specifically because I don't like turbulence. Under "normal" flight, the tension on your lines is caused by your body weight suspended underneath the canopy. Sometimes the canopy over your head also gets pushed down by the gust of wind, and that line tension will be less, causing the lines to "slack". You will also feel a drop here, as gravity pulls you back down to get back to equilibrium. There's no canopy design that I know of that can prevent line-slack. It's a good idea not to fly in these downdraft conditions - I've seen people get broken badly from downdrafts on landing. Also I agree with the others. If your instructors let you jump in 20 MPH and gusting wind and the pilot let you out way upwind to compensate, then they made a mistake. Doesn't matter if they are USPA dropzone or not - no student with 3 jumps should be expected to land safely in those conditions.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ira 0 #19 December 9, 2003 Everyone needs to take a look at the whole situation. People are jumping to conclusions without all of the information and the advice being given frankly is a bit offending. Let me start by saying that Archway is my home DZ and I have never felt unsafe with anything done there. On the contrary, I am extremely confident in their safety record and the quality of the staff. Here are some facts that posters aren't aware of: Archway has a Waiver of the wind BSR and has for 10 years, people are jumping to conclusions without knowing this. The regional director of the USPA resides at Archway. If the S&TA and the regional director don't have a problem then just maybe they and their 8000+ combined jumps were a bit more aware of the situation than some of the people who have posted in this thread. I personally know they won't let a student jump in unsafe winds. I was on a 182 load with a student and landed with the plane because the winds changed on the ride to altitude and were questionable for the student. I would encourage Dan to speak to the staff members at Archway. They can answer the questions he has and let him know why he experienced what he did. They are also going to be his instructors and jumpmasters over the next 20+ jumps and it will help him to get to know them and the fact that they are very good at what they do. Everyone needs to look at Dereks Sig line. It says "Think" well in this situation a lot more people need to act on that advice. Before jumping to a conclusion and making a new jumper more nervous with the unfounded statements to find a new DZ, THINK. Do you know all the facts? If you don't, then don't jump to a conclusion and give advice that isn't justified. Ira Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #20 December 9, 2003 Are you saying he wasn't backing up under canopy? Or are you saying that a student on their 3rd jump backing up under canopy is not un-safe? Are you saying that Archway has a waiver to 20-mph winds for students? As for RD's and S & TA's, they don't impress me much. I have seen a RD do nothing about a DZO doing AFF w/o an AFFI rating. I have seen an S & TA take an AFF student up and the sun had gone down before take-off. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #21 December 9, 2003 Derek, I agree with you. . .I am a newbie jumper and have made only 5 jumps. . .my JMs ALWAYS walk me out on the landing area to watch the first load come down. We talk about the wind conditions and what to do should the winds shift. I feel EXTREMELY confident when i go up in the plane with my JMs. I sat out for a whole day waiting for the wind gusts to die down on an otherwise gorgeous day. Even when the gusts had died to 15 mph, they would not take me up. It was very comforting to know they had my best interests - as well as their own - in mind. I never want to feel like I cannot handle the jump conditions. I take my lead from those at my drop zone that are much more experienced than I am. Elsinore is known for its wind gusts. . .I am thankful everyone there takes it seriously and keeps us students safe. . .(now if I could just figure out how to land on my feet. . .everything would be perfect).________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #22 December 9, 2003 >If the S&TA and the regional director don't have a problem then just > maybe they and their 8000+ combined jumps were a bit more aware > of the situation than some of the people who have posted in this > thread. The issue isn't what we think happened; the issue is what Dan _said_ happened. According to him, a few loads of students went up and they all backed up. Then he went up and backed up (not suprisingly.) I can see you having a point if you claim he's lying, but it doesn't sound like you are. (Are you?) BTW at Otay we have perhaps 30,000 jumps between the instructors there, and we won't put up someone when the winds would cause them to back up. A light student might be in the air as winds came up and caused her to back up, but can't imagine a scenario where we might decide that's OK beforehand. >I was on a 182 load with a student and landed with the plane > because the winds changed on the ride to altitude and were > questionable for the student. It would be interesting to learn what happened in this case, then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #23 December 10, 2003 QuoteI have seen a RD do nothing about a DZO doing AFF w/o an AFFI rating. Was the DZO qualified to make the jump? There's more to being an instructor than flipping a $20.00 to the USPA. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #24 December 10, 2003 QuoteWas the DZO qualified to make the jump? He wasn't uncurrent, but had never been an AFFI or passed an AFFCC. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #25 December 10, 2003 I see your point. I wouldn't have thought it such a big deal if it was simply a matter of not renewing his rating. The course, I assume, is meant to teach and reinforce certain time tested teaching and survival methods that might not be obvious to even the most experienced skydiver. In this case, Hook, I support your viewpoint. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
