TypicalFish 0 #26 January 9, 2004 Just out of curiousity (and quite seriously being completely ignorant as a newbie) why do the CRW-ers have all the stuff hanging out? Is there some advantage as opposed to a tightly packed rig? I know it's a remedial question to most, but I am serious..."I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #27 January 9, 2004 Why does it need to be neatly packed? They are only going to be in feefall for less then 3 seconds before they open. CRW canopies are made to open.. NOW. Most don't get packed into a bag but just float in the container. Sliders are frequently mesh to make it open faster and to avoid slider flap noise. As long as they don't pack a line over there are few Mals for CRW rigs. I used to LOVE freaking the freefallers by seeing how much material I could get to hang outside my rig. I got a Lightning 193 with Dacron lines packed into a Javelin J2 once Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #28 January 9, 2004 Basically, your rig is designed to hold all the bits inside, under cover, until you deploy. The designs are mostly based off the "standard" type of equipment seen in the sport world (standard sized toggles, main canopies packed in a D-bag, etc.). CReW equipment is specially designed for the actions that go on during a CReW dive. We have oversized, wide open toggles so that we have an easier time getting our hands back into them when we let go of them. Since you're often switching between front risers, rear risers, toggles and grabbing canopy or lines while doing CRW, the ability to quickly and easily get a hold of different controls lead to the use of blocks on risers, oversized toggles, mechanical advantage dive loops, etc...all sorts of cool gizmos. Since these bits don't conform to the "standard" sizes/shapes found in freefall rigs, most rigs tend not to be designed to cover them up. Since CReW jumpers don't spend any time in freefall, having stuff hanging out of your rig isn't such a big deal. Since you're intentionally putting yourself in contact with the other guys' lines when you're docking, line burns on your gear (and sometime you!) are inevitable. For this reason, most CReW rigs you see will be old, beat-up containers. No sense in spending a bunch of money on something that's going to get chewed up, right? These rigs tend to be older, which means they may not have all the newest technology when it comes to "containment" (ie- many have velcro riser covers, etc.) which lends itself to more "stuff" hanging out than you might find on a newer Container system. Many CReW dawgs freepack their main canopy (no D-bag) using a tail pocket only. Containers (especially older ones) are designed to be used with a D-bag to contain the canopy, then the container flaps to hold the bag in place. If you don't use a bag, and your container was designed without wrap-around corners, it's common to have some of the canopy material slip out of the corners of the rig...no big deal!! This just further illustrates that the factors important to canopy openings are control of the lines and the slider...not how cleanly the fabric is folded. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 563 #29 January 10, 2004 Nice explanation Ryan, however I still believe that stuff hanging out of containers is an invitation to premature deployments that tear the tails off of airplanes. Several harness/container manufacturers offer specialized CReW versions. Ryan even has set of patterns for CReW Reflex in his loft. The CReW Reflex includes extra-wide riser covers and extra snag-reduction flaps protecting the reserve pilotchute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #30 January 12, 2004 QuoteI still believe that stuff hanging out of containers is an invitation to premature deployments that tear the tails off of airplanes. It is certainly less safe to have anything hanging out out of your rig...and there is always the potential for problems any time you don't have all your gear covered and stowed. CReW dawgs rationalize this with the idea that they don't spend any time in the door, so there should be less of a chance of going over the tail. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this, but you can see the argument. QuoteSeveral harness/container manufacturers offer specialized CReW versions. Unfortunately, buying a brand new rig to do CReW with is spending a lot of money for something that is going to get beaten up...and most people don't want to spend the money if they don't need to. Modern CReW rigs go to great lengths to cover more of your "exposed" equipment while at the same time keeping your openings simple and on heading. But, $$$ is the issue... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 563 #31 January 12, 2004 rigging65, Nice alibi, but I am still not comfortable flying in the same airplane as ugly rigs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,476 #32 January 12, 2004 > . . .I am still not comfortable flying in the same airplane as ugly rigs. One of the nice things about massively ugly rigs is that they are easy to see, and thus you can easily make the decision to not jump with them by just looking at the load. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #33 January 12, 2004 Works for me...everyone is entitled to their opinions! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #34 January 13, 2004 Quote Ah, there's nothing like the looks you get from freefallers when getting on a plane with canopy sticking out of your rig. Oh yeah? Try the looks on their faces when they realize that you're not a crewdog. Used to jump a Telesis made to hold 250's, with a d-bag sized for a 230 and with 288's crammed in both main and reserve. Plus busted riser flaps, ripcord, and two FXC 12000's, 1 as an AAD and one as an AOD on the main. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 563 #35 January 13, 2004 QuoteQuote Ah, there's nothing like the looks you get from freefallers when getting on a plane with canopy sticking out of your rig. Oh yeah? Try the looks on their faces when they realize that you're not a crewdog. Used to jump a Telesis made to hold 250's, with a d-bag sized for a 230 and with 288's crammed in both main and reserve. Plus busted riser flaps, ripcord, and two FXC 12000's, 1 as an AAD and one as an AOD on the main. -Blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This follows on another rigger's grumble about Americans insisting on stuffing 10 pounds in a 5 pound bag. I should hurry up and write that letter of recommendation for my rigger apprentice, just so I don't have to listen to her whine about tight containers ONE MORE TIME! As for the busted riser flaps, etc. I used to get paid big bucks to repair them when I worked at Rigging Innovations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
