First Cutaway

[catfishhunter 1]

I decided to post the facts of my first cutaway ( 12/20/03) because a few people have questioned whether I could have done anything different. Here are the facts

No. Jumps 65 (the number of the jump)
Main Lazer 295
Reserve Lazer 295
AAD None
RSL No

This rig was purchased by my employeer for when he finally gets off student status. He wanted a big docile rig and this one was pretty cheap.

He wanted me to jump it and tell him what i thought about it as he is pretty close to my weight but quite a bit shorter.I had just had the reserve repacked a week before I jumped it.

First Jump on this rig went well but as I normally fly a sabre and/or a spectre 230 the flair was a bit different and a i slid it in.

Second Jump was a 3 way jump went ok I tracked off and dumped about 3500 in the saddle around 2900. When it opened I went into a slow right turn.I did my checks and noticed the slider was still up about 3/4 and had a Huge ball of shit for my right steering lines. I pumped the brakes twice and on the second, as i let up I noticed i was passing though my hard deck(2500) and still had a ball of shit for my right steering lines.I had blew through my hard deck a couple weeks before going for my PC 3 times so I have been very concinence (sp) of not doing that again. Before I really considered anything else I had red and silver in my hands.

After I chopped I have had allot of people ask why I chopped when it looked like a good canopy from the ground( a lazer 295 is allot of material!) and it wasn't a high speed malfunction.Some people have suggested that with such a big canopy, that I could have continued to try to clear the lines of even possibly landed it without to much worry.

Now I am not questioning my decision. I didn't have 2 of the 3 S's by my hard deck so Cha-Ching but what I am wondering what some of you with allot more experiance then I would have tried before chopping. Me personally I am keeping my Hard Deck at 2500. After blowing through 2K and not opening until sub 1800 on the previous mentioned jump I don't feel i should nor am ready for a lower hard deck.

I do have Video of the chop from the ground and watching it you can see the right hand turn and it does look like a good canopy then you see me fall away and then the prettiest white canopy one has ever saw! It is a pretty cool thing to have Video of your first chop.

Yes Buying Beer and Tequila for the rigger (Skydive Ogden is closed for the winter so first thing in the Spring)

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[FrogNog 1]

I should hope people with more experience than us would say "if I opened and saw a slow canopy with screwed up steering lines, picked at it for a few seconds then saw I had reached my decision altitude, I would not try a single other thing."

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Some people have suggested that with such a big canopy, that I could have continued to try to clear the lines of even possibly landed it without to much worry.

Going through your hard deck with a problem is a very bad idea. You are committing to landing a malfunctioning canopy at that point. What if it got worse? If you don't have a good canopy at your hard deck, cutaway and go to your reserve. This is the whole point of the hard deck.

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Now I am not questioning my decision.

Don't, you absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, did the right thing.

Derek

[donovan 0]

[.After I chopped I have had allot of people ask why I chopped when it looked like a good canopy from the ground( a lazer 295 is allot of material!) and it wasn't a high speed malfunction.Some people have suggested that with such a big canopy, that I could have continued to try to clear the lines of even possibly landed it without to much worry.

The same thing just happened to me on my last jump yesterday. Brake line tangled in my right risers not allowing my slider to fully come down. My hard deck is 1500 but at 1800 I still couldn't untangle it. All the words of more experienced people came through my head 'If something is wrong with your canopy(includes steering) get rid of it'. I could have flown in on rear risers but there was a 'what if' element, so I got rid of it and had a perfect canopy out and landed safe and walked away!

There were two jumpers(one the CI) there with >10000 jumps each. there were another three with >3000 jumps. All said without doubt I did the right thing and that they would have done likewise. It cost me some beer for my experience!!

[Scrumpot 1]

Anyone else, who was not right there, in the saddle WITH YOU, while you were passing through your hard deck with a canopy, that for YOU was unlandable, can just STFU, -PERIOD.

Ditto to what Hooknswoop writes.

Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[billvon 2,473]

>Anyone else, who was not right there, in the saddle WITH YOU, while
> you were passing through your hard deck with a canopy, that for
> YOU was unlandable, can just STFU, -PERIOD.

Hmm. I remember a jumper from years back in NY who cut away because his RSL became disconnected, and he didn't want to land like that. Heck, I once had a student who cut away once because he couldn't pump his slider up. He landed safely, but I did have a little talk with him. Sure, he was there and I wasn't and all, but sometimes it's better to point out to someone that there might be a better option.

(Note that in this case it sounds like the jumper made a good call.)

[Scrumpot 1]

Sure Bill, but those cases were extreme, and you know it! This jumper had knotted steering lines and (to him -or is it her? ...no matter) an "uncontrollable" canopy at his/her hard deck.

My bones are with those that second guess a newbie jumper for cutting away a canopy that might have been (legitimately) questionable to THEM (ie: more experienced but not there). Not a total absolute DOH --bonehead "I saw that my RSL clasp was disconnected", and they did not know what that meant, so their action was to chop! Of course in that case you have a talk with them, to EDUCATE them. Those 2 illustrations are complete apples & oranges Bill. ...You're just trying to be contrarian in here now.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[crzjp20 0]

yeah but at the same time better safe than sorry. I am still a student and learning, but one thing i know is if i have a problem with my canopy and i do not feel comfortable with it, its gone. Period, that is what i was taugh and that is what i am sticking to.

Now not landing beacuse of a RSL? thats odd, really odd.

--------------------------------------------------
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.

[catfishhunter 1]

Am not questioning my decision but was asking what if's. Basically if there was anything I could have done different. Again I am not going through my Hard Deck PERIOD but lets say once I have a bazillion jumps and my hard deck is 1500. What could I have done to clear my lines and at what point regardless of altitude do you say it's shit and it ain't coming out. I took the questions being asked as if there was more I could have done to clear the lines but I ended the questions with a simple" My Hard Deck is MY HARD DECK and ain't knowingly going through it again without a Landable Canopy again" but for food for thought what would those with 1000 extra feet of hard deck do to clear the shit and at what point regardless of altitude say hell with it and go Red Silver.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[ChileRelleno 0]

As you already know "You did the right thing at the right time."

The after the fact "What ifs?" are good cause we're always learning.

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but lets say once I have a bazillion jumps and my hard deck is 1500. What could I have done to clear my lines and at what point regardless of altitude do you say it's shit and it ain't coming out. I took the questions being asked as if there was more I could have done to clear the lines but I ended the questions with a simple" My Hard Deck is MY HARD DECK and ain't knowingly going through it again without a Landable Canopy again" but for food for thought what would those with 1000 extra feet of hard deck do to clear the shit and at what point regardless of altitude say hell with it and go Red Silver.

You basically answer your own question, you can screw with anything till your hard deck.
Be aware that screwing with fouled lines can lead to further complications i.e inducing a faster turn/spin, which could be harder to cutaway from ect..
You couldv'e cut the offending brake line and risered it in.(Not recomended at your experience level)
You could'a of done this or that or even that.... Could'a, should'a and would'a....

When in doubt whip it out!!!!!!!!!!

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[Scrumpot 1]

What difference would comparing MY extra 1,000 ft of hard-deck (asuming that's what I have) have against yours? I agree with you, that if I were passing through my hard deck, with something that were un-landable to ME, I'm gonna chop it too! That's precisely what your hard deck is all about, and in that regard, you did ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

Now to rephrase answer, what it is I think you are asking of me:

Back when I had 120 +/- jumps, I used to think if I looked up and saw a line-over, that I would immediately CHOP. And at 120 jumps that would probably have been the correct action to take. A line-over from the ground may also look like it was a landable canopy, and at that level, like I had a lot of material over my head from that observation point even too. ---but I digress.

At around 120+/- jumps, I am grateful and lucky enough to say that I never had that pre-pictured line-over mal. But at ~730 jumps I sure did. Now I can tell you (AGAIN) that if this were below my hard deck ...I would have chopped it! No bones about it. But it was, as you are asking for this type of feedback, at this time well above my hard deck. Having now had more experience with working certain "opening characteristics" open that some students may have (and appropriately - for THEM) looked at as "mals", instead into fully opening and flying/controllable canopies, I did indeed instead (at THAT experience level) clear it.

Your canopy was unflyable for you, at your experience level. I was not there, it may not have been even flyable (or more importantly, landable) for even me at mine. ...Or anyone else at theirs. It's hard to know exacty what type of mal you had, just by your printed word description of it. It was not one of the "text-book" apparently types of mals. It may have just been a hung slider, which MAY have cleared with a few aggressive pumps of your toggles. Then again, it may have been a tension knot on the steering line, which pretty much assuredly would NOT clear, no matter what you did. Could you have landed that (apparently) big of a canopy under rear riser control, and/or offsetting toggle controls? Perhaps. But you decided AT and for your hard deck that you had not yet figured this one out, and unless you were SURE ...you ABSOLUTELY, 100% most assuredly did THE RIGHT THING!!

People have been known to go in under canopies they have been trying to fix for too long, when they have had instead right there on there backs, UNUSED, a perfectly good reserve just waiting to save their lives, if they only called on it to do so!!

Second guessing a novices actions under a canopy that MAY have ben marginal for a more experienced jumper, IMHO can potentially lead you in turn to instead the next time around consider doing precisely what I have described above. I too (like Bill) can whip out anecdotal stories of jumpers on the entire other end of the spectrum, who were apparently criticized for having chopped a main that others felt they could have worked with more; who then later may have taken that "advice" and gone in!

Keep learning. ABSOLUTELY! ...But one of the most important lessons, that you have apparently already learned, don't "un-learn" it. And that is that your hard deck is your hard deck, is your hard deck, is your hard deck.....

Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[GravityGirl 0]

What they said!

Not for my lecture:

1. New line set! Change them between 400 - 600 jumps. Not only will this prevent tension knots, but it will help keep your canopy in trim as well.

2. Beware the ads that say, "GREAT BEGINNER RIG". Make sure that doesn't mean, "I used it when I started 10 years ago and it was good enough for me." Check into the maintenance and upkeep of the rig and consider and modifications that should be performed.

Okay I'm done. >>Breath<<

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[billvon 2,473]

>My bones are with those that second guess a newbie jumper for
> cutting away a canopy that might have been (legitimately)
> questionable to THEM (ie: more experienced but not there).

I think it's sort of our job to second guess. When something like this happens, it can be helpful to talk about tension knots and how to clear them. Sure, he made a decision that saved his life, and I don't think it would be right to say "you idiot! What did you cut away for?" That's not helpful. But it's also not helpful to say "You did exactly the right thing; there is no other way to handle tension knots other than cutting away."

In fact, I believe that this is one reason for the beer rules. It's the jumper's responsibility to buy their beer when they have a first, especially their first cutaway, first bad spot, first landing problem etc. But the people drinking the beer have a responsibility too - they have a responsibility to talk to the new jumper about what happened, how they reacted, what they could have done differently. I consider it my part of the bargain when someone buys for me.

Personally, learning to clear tension knots has saved me from three tandem cutaways and one "real" cutaway. If I had used my reserve, would I have been OK? Most probably yes. But knowing how to clear them gave me two chances to land a good canopy instead of one.

I think most of it is in how you approach the issue. If I had been there, I think I would have mentioned that what he described might have been a tension knot, or it might have been something else (a lineover etc.) If it was a tension knot, clearing it by pumping the brakes, or by snapping the riser/brake, might have given it a chance to clear (done above hard deck, of course.) That wouldn't be a criticism of how he handled it; cutting away a canopy you don't think you can land is generally the best way to deal with such a problem. But it's also useful to know that there are other options.

[The111 1]

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snapping the riser/brake

Could you elaborate on this please?

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[billvon 2,473]

>Could you elaborate on this please?

Sure. The problem described (slider partway up, big snarl in steering lines) sounds like a tension knot, a knot formed when loose lines flap around in the airstream and loop around each other or something else (like the slider.) If you were on the ground you could easily work them out; under canopy it's a lot harder because those lines are under tension, and that tension is holding the knot in place.

One way to deal with them is to pump the brakes; the motion of the brake line can sometimes clear it. Another way is to pull down on a slider or brake line as far as you can and let it go suddenly; this will unload the lines for a split second, and that might be enough to release or partially release the knot. In my experience it works about 30-40% of the time.

[martz 0]

Are you alive ???

YES ... So you did a great job !!!
Don't hesitate to chop the next time you got a problem.

Is it better to chop a good canopy or keeps a bad one ???

my opinion !

===============================
Ourson # 5
impatient de sauter # 1

[catfishhunter 1]

Thanks Bill. That was one thing I didn't try

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Another way is to pull down on a slider or brake line as far as you can and let it go suddenly;

I did pump the brakes twice and nothing. I asked the question if there was anything else I could have done and you answered it. I still would have chopped when I did as i was at my hard deck but if it happens again I now know this is one other thing I can do besides pumping the brakes. Thanks everyone for your input.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[saramorgan 0]

I am a huge fan of walking down my brake lines(starting from the canopy

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[glh 4]

I had my first cutaway yesterday at jump 353,almost the same problem as you upon opening my left brake line released and ended getting stuck in the slider about 5 feet above my reach.The canopy was flying with a slow left turn and the only way to flare or turn was with the rear risers so i cut away and had a great reserve ride and a good off dz landing.
If i had to do it over again i would do the same thing. Better to buy beer and a reserve repack than get injured or killed by landing a less than perfect canopy

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[EDYDO 0]

You probably could have flown it on in without a problem. If however, it started getting squirley down low, you would probably be dead.

Right Choice!!!

Ed