Exit separation?

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

I will make it standard policy that exit order will always be:
1) skysurfers
2) belly flyers, largest group to smallest
3) Free flyers, largest group to smallest
4) AFF and tandems, plus any other very high openings. The main reason for high openings leaving last is not separation, it's that they can make it back from a long spot!
Thank you, Bryan Burke

Ok that's great, but what about me?? Specifically fast belly to earth fallers. My speeds are generally 146 average and 167max opening at 3k. It seems to me that people like me would be an exception to this separation rule b/c I am pretty much a RW guy falling at sit/HD speeds. When on a load trying to figure out where to exit most people are stumped as to where I should go. I am usually told to go out first. Does this sound right? Where should I exit in the order, and where are some times when that should be changed. Every time I ran the simulator when I exited first it shows the slower faller crossing over me, and the opening separation to be 75-150 feet. If I exit after them the separation is 1200-1500 feet. No matter what numbers I realistically entered different wind speeds and direction it showed that me exiting after slower jumpers is better. The way I see it I should be exiting after the RW guys and before the free fliers? Am I off anywhere?

[mrhoop 0]

On a solo "belly" you should be in a good spot, right before the freefliers. You could also exit after freefliers, before the students. If you jump with a group, hopefully you or they can keep you fall rate.

[Frenchy68 0]

Opening at 3k? After 10 Jumps?
I am probably out of line (and will be spanked I am sure; Ron?), but can't help wondering what your hard deck is after 10 jumps?

BS,

N.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[tattoojeff 0]

youll learn to fly your body more efficiently as you progress. unless you planning on doing alot of solo belly jumps youll need to slow it down. youll learn fallrate adjustment before you get your A lisc. in the mean time your a student and should be exiting last with the other students and tandems. so dont worry too much about this. you have enough to concentrate on being a student.

[cvfd1399 0]

My hard deck is 2500. I usually pull at 3500-4000, I put 3000 down as the point in which the canopy is fully open and causing the greatest hazard for jumpers still in freefall around me.

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

My hard deck is 2500. I usually pull at 3500-4000, I put 3000 down as the point in which the canopy is fully open and causing the greatest hazard for jumpers still in freefall around me.

So, we're guessing that the number '10' in your profile is -not- your correct jump number?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[cvfd1399 0]

No 10 is my jump number. Post Aff working on A

[skr 1]

I think Bryan stated it in terms of body position
because at this time in history people are really
hung up on what body position you happen to
be skydiving in.

The real point is fall rate, and what he meant was
slow fallers (boards and RW usually) first, then
fast fallers (sit and head down usually), then high
pullers.

So if you are falling that fast you should probably
go just before the head downers.

Some of Bryan's original posts on this are down
at the bottom of http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/index.html

Skr

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

No 10 is my jump number. Post Aff working on A

Then I guess you already know the USPA BSR in regards to minimum opening altitudes listed: 2-1.G.

Your 'hard deck' minimum should be 3,000', not 2500.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[ChrisL 2]

I was falling at those speeds initially as well.

Rather than expect the skydiving world to adapt to my fall rate (not a very reasonable expectation), I chose to adapt myself to match the average fall rates of the people that do what I wanted to be doing. In my case RW.

I got a jumpsuit that was much more suitable to slow me down and give me more control. I also got some coaching to help me control fall rate with my body.

Now I still have a tendancy to go a little fast if I'm solo, I can do RW with friends and its MUCH more under my control.

__

My mighty steed

[FrogNog 1]

Quote

Quote

No 10 is my jump number. Post Aff working on A

Then I guess you already know the USPA BSR in regards to minimum opening altitudes listed: 2-1.G.

Your 'hard deck' minimum should be 3,000', not 2500.

ltdiver

It sounds like you're confusing hard deck with container opening altitude. Section 2-1.G of the SIM says student and A-license jumpers are to open their containers at or above 3,000' AGL. I can't readily find it in the SIM, but I thought I read that students are recommended to complete any necessary emergency procedures by 2,000' AGL, and that's what I would call a 'hard deck'.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[sdgregory 0]

That was my understanding of Hard Deck as well. Please correct me if I am wrong.

But I understand 'hard deck' to mean 'decision altitude' or 'lowest cut-away' altitude or whatever term you want to use for it.

[Nightingale 0]

my FJC instructor used hard-deck to mean "decision altitude"

[Sheenster303 0]

I was taught "hard deck" to mean decision altitude as well.

I'm so funny I crack my head open!

P.M.S. #102

[Frenchy68 0]

So if you pull at 3,500 and your hard deck is 2,500, and your canopy takes 5 seconds to open (now you're down to around 2,500ft); ooops, line twists! Do you automatically chop?
Just wondering

Blue skies,

nick

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[newsstand 0]

At A license time I was still waving off at 4500 but it doesn't take long before that becomes a problem to the other jumpers on the load. Everyone here can say what they want about "doing what is comfortable" but peer pressure still comes to play. (BTW I turned 46 today so I am no kid easily swayed.) I now wave off at 3500 and am in the saddle at 2500 with my audible screaming in my ear as I consider 2500 my harddeck. Line twists at this point would get the requisite two attempts to clear and then yes I would pull the pillow and go for the silver.

As to the main topic, you (cvfd1399) will soon be bored jumping alone, believe it or not, and will want to start RW or free flying. I don't FF yet because I am renting not FF friendly gear but the free flyers I know are realy doing RW-FF so you stil need to work on fall rate control. Get a big baggy suit and learn to hug the air.

Edited for clarity.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[sdgregory 0]

Quote

At A license time I was still waving off at 4500 but it doesn't take long before that becomes a problem to the other jumpers on the load.

No kidding here. Especially if you want to get on bigger dives. I like to pull around 4000' or higher because I absolutely love canopy flight and it is more comfortable to me. This weekend my last jump was the largest group I ever jumped with. It was an 8 way.

We broke off in two stages of four. the first group left at 5000, the second group stayed together till 4000 and then turn and tracked. I was in the second group. Everything in me wanted to turn and track when we hit 4500. But I knew I needed to stay in my slot and I knew that 4000 was plenty of altitude.

4000 came we turned and tracked and I pulled at 3000. My 'hard deck' is normally 2500 so this was a little different. I had to mentally adjust my 'hard deck' before the jump. It was a different experience and the ground certainly looked a lot closer.

[HRHSkyPrincess 0]

From the SIM:

Minimum container opening altitudes above the ground for skydivers are:


1. Tandem jumps--4,500 feet AGL

2. All students and A-license holders--3,000 feet AGL

3. B-license holders--2,500 feet AGL

AND

c. You should decide upon and take the appropriate actions by a predetermined altitude:


(1) Students and A-license holders: 2,500 feet.

(2) B-D license holders: 1,800 feet.

*****************
Attitude is everything!

[HRHSkyPrincess 0]

You are correct Sheenster. :)

*****************
Attitude is everything!

[Sheenster303 0]

Yay! My instructors taught me well!

I'm so funny I crack my head open!

P.M.S. #102

[sdgregory 0]

Looks like quite a few of us have been taught well. Yay!!!!

[sundance 1]

You can sometimes get back a lost dog, or other thing of value but you can never get back lost altitude. Altitude is indeed everything. Consider this though:

If you deploy at minimum altitude as an A license holder (3000 ft), most of the time I think you will be at or below your hard deck appropriate action point (2500 ft) by the time your main is inflated..... hmmm, not much time to assess and take appropriate action.

One of the surest signs that intelligent life exists in outer space is that none of it has tried to contact us.