USPA group member safer or what?

[jlmiracle 7]

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>>How do you know he voted "the way the skydivers would have wanted him to?"<<

I'll take him at his word.

I think you missed his point. Hes asking you how do you know he voted what the skydivers wanted when you don't know what the skydivers want/wanted?? I'm not saying he doesn't, but there isn't a poll of all the skydivers/members everytime uspa makes a decision.

Maybe cause he is a skydiver and that's how he knows that he voted for the skydivers.

What makes you think he DIDN'T vote for the skydivers?

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[jlmiracle 7]

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Could you provide me with a copy of the GM pledge and USPA SIM from that time period?

I'm too young to have a copy of that SIM or GM Pledge, but I will sure do my best to find one. Do you have one Quade?

So way back then seat belts were a optional in the eyes of FAA?

What are the individual member benefits to the GM program? What are the GM benefits?

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[rehmwa 2]

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I truely believe most people heard he couldn't get on the ballot but could be elected as a write in and voted for him simply because he has, arguably, the most bitchin' King Air anyone has ever jumped out of -- period. Name recognition via the airplane alone was, I believe, enough to get him elected. Not his views, policies or practices about anything . . .

Here's one for your poll (I suspect much of what you say is true, but here's an example). I voted for Mike that first year. When the various magazines posted all the candidates' postitions, I ended up voting for 4 people only.

It was those candidates that stated some kind of platform (of ANY kind - Mike and Roger each had a long list of things they wanted to accomplish (agree or not to the details, I admire the willingness to try to execute a vision), Larry specifically mentioned certain actions he wanted accomplish with the FAA, one other person wanted to develop some kind of information database for skydivers' use (minor, but at least tangible), no one else had anything to say that was distinct, measurable, and visible. There were a couple others that stated some subjective/feel good crap, but it didn't require any specific actions).

The rest all had something along the lines of "the membership should let me know what's on their minds and I'll try to support that. By the way, I've done this for years. Thank you". Weak. I didn't vote for anyone else. However, FWIW, it's been a while since I've provided any input as well to my regional or the national council. Like pushing for a 6 month repack cycle, etc..... Should do that.

Edit: BTW, I admire and really like many of the directors. But it's not supposed to be a popularity contest, it's supposed to be about representing our interests. So when the candidate won't even outline their positions in the advertisement intended for that exact purpose, how do we know who to vote for unless we know them personally.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[bmcd308 0]

>>If you want to go back to the original question, then read my original answer.

As for any underage jumping, again, asked and answered. <<

I know this reply was not to me, but I just want to clarify that despite the fact that Mike's DZ (also my home DZ) is not a GM DZ, I do not feel unsafe there. When Matthew turns 16 or 18 or however old you have to be to do a GM-friendly solo skydive, Mike might choose to pony up the GM fee. His check clearing will not make the DZ any safer, though. A DZ is what it is, and while participation in the GM program does indicate at least a willingness to pretend to follow certain rules, it is not, in my opinion, an indication of the relative safety of the dz.

On the underage jumping thing, I would in general be against allowing it. Mike's kids are very mature and make very good decisions, however, and they have demonstrated to me that underage skydivers should be evaluated on a case by case basis.

I don't know what would happen at WTS if I brought a 13-year old out and told Mike he wanted to learn to skydive. But I strongly suspect that Mike would tell me to bring him back in a few years. WTS follows the BSRs as much as anywhere else (and more so in some respects, even making experienced jumpers get coach ratings to jump with the unlicensed AFF grads), but Mike is just going to let his kids jump, so he is not a GM.

And despite the fact that he is 13, I feel at least as safe in the air with Zach as I do with lots of people 2, 3, and 4 times his age.

Brent

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www.jumpelvis.com

[relyon 0]

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Of course we all know this argument didn't work in Madolyn's favor, given that Roger Nelson and Jessie Farrington WERE on the ballot.

What are you referring to? None of the Farrington's jumped in violation of USPA BSR minimum age limits.

Bob

[quade 3]

Chris --

This thread has become a tangled web of thoughts and ideas. I think you'd really have to sit down and read the entire thing from start to finish with cross references to even begin to understand it.

I have tried to explain my position repeatedly without accelerating the conversation to include other side topics, but, unfortunately, other folks keep bringing new material into the conversation. From my point of view, the more of that material they bring in, the worse their position looks because it looks to me like they're trying to justify special treament and exceptions to fairness.

Trust me, I totally understand the loyalty some folks have to Mike Mullins, but I think that also prevents some of them from looking at some of the points we've discussed objectively.

I'm going to back off this coversation for a couple of days.

Chris -- this next part isn't directed specifically to you, but this is just a convenient place to put it.

If somebody has an axe to grind about the USPA Group Member Program, if they think the USPA is unfairly spending their dues money to support the program, then they should take it up with the USPA. Their number in Washington is (703) 836-3495. Seriously, start a movement, but quit just bitching about it via passive/aggressive internet polls with a hidden agenda.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[chriswelker 0]

Quade,

If you were wrong would you admit it?

Chris Welker
D-19678

[chriswelker 0]

The Group Member Program was established to foster a business and professional relationship between USPA and skydiving clubs, centers and schools in order to strengthen the unity within the skydiving community and to enhance the growth of the sport. The main beneficiary of this unity is the individual skydiver, who will receive better training, jump in a safer environment, and be better served by the association which supports the skydiver's interests.

Drop Zones immediately benefit from Group Membership in many ways. Perhaps the greatest benefit to a DZ is the ability to make statements about meeting the standards of a national organization like USPA. Only Group Members are able to offer these credentials. And, only Group Members can offer the 45-Day Temporary Individual Membership which ensures that all of their jumpers are insured to cover costs of damage to your or your neighbors' property. Also, only Group Members may access USPA's online database of individual members to instantly check jumpers' memberships, licenses and ratings. Following is a full list of the benefits of USPA Group Membership:

• Eligibility to sell the USPA 45-Day Temporary Individual Membership. This membership is a low-cost alternative to the annual membership and allows the DZ to offer the third-party liability insurance that comes with membership to all its jumpers, especially students and foreign visitors.

• Eligibility to participate in the Voluntary Courtesy Inspection Program (VCIP). Participating DZs receive a complete on-site inspection by a USPA-contracted DZ inspector. DZs are expected to pay the inspection costs.

• Affiliation with USPA. Group Members receive a certificate of membership signifying their pledge to comply with USPA's Basic Safety Requirements (BSRs), which include compliance with the Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs). This credential is meaningful to experienced and new jumpers alike.

• Parachutist Listing. DZs are included in a monthly listing of Group Members in each issue of Parachutist.

• Drop Zone Directory Listing. Group Members are provided a complete listing in USPA’s online Drop Zone Directory. The listing provides detailed information about the DZ as well as contact information and web links to the DZ. The information can be quickly updated.

• USPA Logo Use. Group Members may use the USPA Group Member logo with the phrase "USPA Group Member" on any of their own advertising.

• Online Database Access. Group Members may access USPA's online database of member credentials through the USPA website. This enables DZs to instantly check the status of jumpers' memberships, licenses, and ratings.

• Government Relations Presence. Dues from the Group Member Program support representation at all levels of government by the USPA Government Relations staff and its contractors on issues of national importance to the sport and industry.

• Government Relations Assistance. USPA assists Group Members threatened with government interference. In cases of regional or state challenges, USPA will provide on-site assistance, as resources permit. USPA maintains reference and legal case files relevant to DZ operations.

• E-mail Reports. DZO Incoming and Safety & Training Newsletter. USPA reports on issues important to Group Members and their staffs via e-mail on a frequent basis through the DZO Incoming and Safety & Training Newsletter.

• AAD Fund Use. Group Member DZs are eligible to apply for legal assistance with access issues through the Airport Access Defense Fund.

• Participation in the DZO Conference. Normally held annually, the USPA Drop Zone Owners Conference provides an opportunity for DZOs to participate in sessions and seminars relevant to DZ operations.

• Jump Pilot Orientation. Group Members receive a copy of the Flying for Skydiving Operations video jointly produced by USPA and the FAA, and useful for guiding prospective jump pilots.

• Pilot and Airport Management Assistance. Group Members receive a copy of the Skydiving and Parachute Operations video jointly produced by USPA and the FAA, and useful in educating local pilots and airport management about safe DZ procedures.

• Parachutist DZ Events Listing. Group Member DZ events and boogies are listed free in the "Main Events" department of Parachutist.

In return for these benefits, each Group Member will pledge to comply with the BSRs, including FARs; require USPA individual membership (45-Day or annual) for all licensed skydivers; ensure all its employees and staff are appropriately qualified and rated in accordance with the Skydivers Information Manual (SIM) and (where applicable) hold USPA ratings and/or FAA licenses and certifications commensurate with their duties; and require that every skydiver sign a hold harmless release on behalf of USPA, consistent with state laws. Group Members also agree to support USPA promotional programs.

Each Group Member pays an initial registration fee its first year of membership and annual dues each subsequent year. Group Members will be classified as:

CAT 1 (skydiving operations that use military aircraft or clubs that are located on and use aircraft of an established skydiving center which is itself a Group Member;

CAT 2 (small centers or schools that operate routinely with not more than two small aircraft, each weighing less than 6,000 pounds; or, professional skydiving schools which do not operate a DZ or own aircraft) and;

CAT 3 (large centers that operate routinely with more than two small aircraft or one or more aircraft larger than 6,000 pounds). Foreign DZs are recognized as CAT 1 Group Members. The dues schedule is as follows:

CAT 1 CAT 2 CAT 3
Initial (new) $200 $300 $600
Renewal $100 $200 $400

If you are interested in these benefits and becoming a USPA Group Member, please fill out and return the enclosed USPA Group Member Application. It will be forwarded to the appropriate Regional Director for approval and then processed at Headquarters. We appreciate your support of our efforts to keep skydiving safe and fun!