Military jump numbers

[Zenister 0]

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1000's of military static line jumps would not give you the slightest bit of freefall skill.

no but the PLF the military drills into your head like no other FJC can easily save your life... every military static line you landed without accident is one more landing you have (hopefully) learned something from..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[homer 0]

I had only 24 jumps before my status was medically terminated. For some reason the doctors feel I was unfit for jump status again after having cancer. It was a year and a half before I started sport jumping.

As for the logging it is up to the individual. I keep my military S/L log in with my sport log but do I count them in my total numbers, no. People ask me my numbers and I tell them I have this # sport jumps and this # military S/L.

I feel the only thing that military S/L gave me for sport jumping was the experience of exiting an aircraft and canopy experience (emergency procedures for malfunctions). As for the PLF I do believe it should be taught in the first jump course as it has saved MANY jumper from sustaining much worse injuries while crash landing a ram air. It has been five years since my last military S/L but the PLF mentality instilled by my time in the 82nd is still there. Even after nearly 300 sport jumps I still have to tell myself it is OK to do a stand up landing. The hardest part of my student progression wasn't the jump itself it was landing. My first eight jumps were a flair and PLF when my feet touched ground.

Again, it is up to the jumper to count it all as one if they want. That's just my two cents.

CSA #699 Muff #3804

[mjosparky 3]

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Log whatever the hell you want. Hell you could log jumping off of your couch for all I care! You're still doing a PLF, right? As long as you know what the hell you're doing in the SPORT SKYDIVING world (which many trainded military jumpers DON'T). Just don't ever think you know more than an edjucated, and experienced sport jumper. In my short career I HAVE SEEN MANY MILITARY TRAINED MAKE THIS MISTAKE.

Remember,
Military Skydiving World
VERY DIFFERENT
from Sport Skydiving World

OK Sui Cide,

You learned this from you years of experience in both worlds, right? (edjucated , trainded?)

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[slotperfect 7]

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Log whatever the hell you want. Hell you could log jumping off of your couch for all I care! You're still doing a PLF, right?

Please don't encourage people to lean that way. We all need to have some integrity when opening our logbook and uncapping that pen. If one gets in the habit of inflating the contents of his logbook, it becomes a habit. Later in life, when it is discovered, that person will fall out of integrity and lose credibility as well.

I know of someone that is fairly well known in the skydiving world that falls into this category. Maybe if someone gave him some sage advice early on he would never have gotten into that predicament.

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As long as you know what the hell you're doing in the SPORT SKYDIVING world (which many trainded military jumpers DON'T). Just don't ever think you know more than an edjucated, and experienced sport jumper. In my short career I HAVE SEEN MANY MILITARY TRAINED MAKE THIS MISTAKE.

I work very hard to educate the military jumpers that come through me for USPA licenses and ratings. I agree whole-heartedly that military procedures and regulations, along with the military jump environment (be it static line or military free fall) is very different.

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Remember,
Military Skydiving World
VERY DIFFERENT
from Sport Skydiving World

I think this statement actually supports the other opinions in this thread that the military static line jumps might be better off being logged separately. If a US Army Master Parachutist, who is a Jumpmaster with at least 65 military static line jumps, puts those jumps in his logbook, he is adding a fairly significant number without an accompanying degree of experience that applies to the "sport world." There are a few things that might transfer - knowledge of wind direction, the PLF, etc., but not much else.

Arrive Safely

John

[Merkur 1]

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There are a few things that might transfer - knowledge of wind direction, the PLF, etc., but not much else.

From personal experience I think that these things are quite important. A good PLF for example would have saved a lot of bones from being broken. Looking at the wind before a jump and "read" the landing zone is also a skill you get from the static line business.

Military freefall jumps with full equipment are also challenging to your skills as this equipment, which can weigh up to your own body weight, also tries to fly it's own path and you need some skills to stop it from doing so. And all my oxygen briefings in the military where at least as good as the civilian ones.

So I think, it's quite a lot that you can learn through military jumps. That's why I log them (S/L without freefall time).

Regarding the following:

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Just don't ever think you know more than an edjucated, and experienced sport jumper. In my short career I HAVE SEEN MANY MILITARY TRAINED MAKE THIS MISTAKE.

I have seen an equal number of military as well as non military jumpers who ignore the advice of more trained people. That is a human and not a military/non military problem.

M.

vSCR No.94
Don't dream your life - live your dream!

[LouDiamond 1]

I'm not really sure how to reply to your post since there are so many glaring inconsistencies and stereo types. I think Slotperfect did a pretty good job in replying to your post. I can't help but wonder if your confusing S/L military jumpers with military HALO jumpers? I feel a rant coming on so I am going to walk away from this one. My advise to you though that can be applied to all aspects of ones life is this: Engage your mind before you engage your mouth.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[flyangel2 2]

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just don't ever think you know more than an edjucated, and experienced sport jumper.

Well for your information none of my S/L were done in the military. I guess that shows you just how much you know, cause a long time ago, before there were Tandems or AFF, they trained us to skydive with the S/L method. I'm guessing I don't have enough experience in the sport of skydiving after 25 plus years to give an option here

My father was an officer in the Air Force and as a young girl I would go out to the base and watch the jumpers. I have the utmost respect for all those that have or will serve in any branch of the military and would never, ever talk evil to them as you have directed your statements to them.

Grow up and get some more jumps before opening your mouth again.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[mjosparky 3]

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Real Name: Sui Cide
Location: North America/United States
Email: [email protected]
Jump Profile
Home DZ: No home dropzone entered.
License Org: USPA
Number of Jumps: 70
Years in Sport: 1
Disciplines of Choice: Formation Skydiving
CReW
Gear
Container: No container entered.
Main Canopy: No main entered.
Reserve Canopy: No reserve entered.
AAD: No AAD entered.

Another shot from the dark.

Sounds to me like someone missed a real good chance to keep the mouth shut.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[madeyebiohazard 0]

well one thing I have found is that millitary trained jumpers wether free fall trained or not are much safer than a skydiver of equall experiance with out military jump training. due to the fact that they have more expierance and understanding of the dangers envolved unlike your average civilian kid with an attitude who wants to be cool and show off to impress there friends resulting in cherry mistakes and injuries but hey with all your expierance I don't have to tell you this.

You must be fast cause you were flying when I past you

[steve1 5]

Many folks who are sport jumpers, and who have never made a military jump, tend to develop an arrogant attitude toward military jumping. Sure sport jumping is different, but many things I learned in my Army jumps, have helped me skydiving.

Reguards for safety would be a big factor that carried right over to Sport Jumping. Ever make a jump into the dark of night with 80 lbs of gear, a rifle strapped to your side, and 50 other jumpers in the air at the same time. Military static line jumpers do this all the time and survive.

During the 70's PLF's saved my bacon lot's of times. I even used one last summer when I had two canopies out on a down wind landing. In the army you spend almost a week learning how to land safely.

Overcoming your fear of jumping is also a lot easier for a new skydiver with a history of military jumping. It's very similiar in that respect. It takes guts to jump from any plane while in fright. I don't care where.

Canopies may be different when comparing military to sport, but there are still some things that would carry over.

I have nothing but respect for HALO jumpers. Never been there or done that. I would imagine much of this school would carry right over to sport jumping.

There's probably other factors that would carry over to sport jumping. (Many may have escaped my limited intelligence).

Anyhow, it kind of get's my hackles up when someone down plays military jumping. I recall one of my sport jumper instructors back in the 70's, who tried to tell me there was nothing to Army jumping. (This was back when your instructor might have had a 100 jumps if you were lucky.) All he said you had to do in a military jump, was run out the door and land like a sack of you know what. I'm still sort of riled up about that statement.....Steve1