Randy_H 0 #1 February 9, 2005 Have you ever had pain so bad that it affects your vision? Well my knees are like that right now. If you are a member of skydivingmovies.com then clicky to see why!010010010110010101100001011101000111000001110101011100110111001101111001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmchristian 0 #2 February 9, 2005 I broke wind really bad one time and it affected everyones vision. It was really painful too Chris -------- "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body; but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy s#$* what a ride!'" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #3 February 9, 2005 Dude... Flair next time. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #4 February 9, 2005 Care to tell us why you did that? I have a couple of ideas, but would rather not speculate. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #5 February 9, 2005 Randy, I use to watch skydivingmovies.dom, additionally, my right knee is killing me everyday. what do you want to tell to the world? Christel dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy_H 0 #6 February 9, 2005 Quote Care to tell us why you did that? I have a couple of ideas, but would rather not speculate. Well, the winds were pretty strong 18+ MPH, and I was on my downwind leg. Everything was fine, I turned onto base, then the winds dropped off. I turned onto final and didn't have that headwind I was counting on and ended up still being 150' off the ground over my target and I was approaching a runway. Being a newbie and having had an experience with the runway before, I decided that I would do a crosswind landing because the winds had really died off and I thought that I'd land in the grass. I was wrong, I turn a right 90 and notice I am approaching another runway so I turn to the right again. Now the winds have picked back up and I am doing a downwind landing heading towards another runway. SHIT!! I then try to flat turn 90 to the right again to avoid a downwind landing on the runway but I was already too low. If you look at the video, near the end, you will see that I have my right toggle down about 1/4 trying to turn away from the runway. I froze up and ate it hard! This video was taken by Scott Miller. So we had a nice debriefing on what I did and what I should have done. To sum it up, I should have kept my initial final approach and flaired like I normally do and just landed on the runway. No matter what you land on, the flairing is the same. I still have, or I should say, I HAD the newbie mentality about only wanting to land on the soft grass. My knees are speaking to me very clearly now about flairing. This type of landing is way out of the norm for me. I tasted tarmac only one other time and that was on my AFF-1 jump. After this jump, I went into the bathroom and got a bunch of paper towels and some water. Splashed water all over my knees and dried them, then went right back up! The next landing was sweet! Why? Because I was within 10 meters of the target and flared! I posted this video so that other people who are just as new as I can learn from my mistake. Having no skin on both knees is not fun and I wouldn't do it again! Thank god for prescription pain killers!010010010110010101100001011101000111000001110101011100110111001101111001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #7 February 10, 2005 You got off easy and learned from your mistakes. Besides, your knees will be sore, the scabs with heal, and you'll have scare tissue and be able to pack on concrete without a problem in the future! Be safe....r Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy_H 0 #8 February 10, 2005 QuoteBesides, your knees will be sore, the scabs with heal, and you'll have scare tissue and be able to pack on concrete without a problem in the future! I guess that is a positive! Time to get the wire brush out and scrub those puppies again!010010010110010101100001011101000111000001110101011100110111001101111001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adobelover 0 #9 February 10, 2005 Ouch, I saw that video yesterday & glad you're okay...I also am a newbie and don't know shit but I try to avoid areas of tarmac, concrete & grass that converge...there's weird thermals coming off of different ground cover. FLARE a little higher and harder, hold it and PLF! My 52 years old knees look like they belong on a 12 year old learning how to roller skate! _________________________________________ Old age ain't no place for sissies! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #10 February 11, 2005 QuoteOuch, I saw that video yesterday & glad you're okay...I also am a newbie and don't know shit but I try to avoid areas of tarmac, concrete & grass that converge...there's weird thermals coming off of different ground cover. FLARE a little higher and harder, hold it and PLF! My 52 years old knees look like they belong on a 12 year old learning how to roller skate! Just don't make the mistake of trying too hard to avoid the tarmac! Plenty of people have been hurt when they should have just landed on the tarmac with a good flare, rather than doing crazy stuff avoiding the tarmac. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diver123 0 #11 February 11, 2005 While I'm still very new to this sport myself, I never forget what my aff instructor taught me... NEVER stop FLYING your canopy! Not until it's completely collapsed... Scraped knees is a blessing compared to the price some have to pay for that lesson... blue skies bro. "pull high! It's lower than you think..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
op5e 0 #12 February 12, 2005 Wire brush is never fun, but when a cute nurse does it, its a little bit more bareable ;) I was a little off the landing area and notice I try my hardest to avoid the road (small single lane) because I thought it would be bad to land on. After I dragged my ass out of the mud I asked my DZSO about landing on concret. I should have asked this at the start, I was suprised the thought had never gotten in my head after 20 jumps. Glad it was only scraps. Thanks for the video. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #13 February 12, 2005 Quote I turned onto final and didn't have that headwind I was counting on and ended up still being 150' off the ground over my target and I was approaching a runway. First, glad you are OK. Do you feel you have the skills to alter your glide slope to fix the inevitable wind changes and pilot errors that might make you land somewhere you don’t want to land? I am too new to offer the answers to the questions, but I will offer the questions themselves that I asked my instructors. For both the following questions - for whatever reason (traffic, between a rock and a hard place, etc) – you can’t turn once on final approach… You have one option, fly straight – but where you are going to land if you change nothing on your glide slope is going to hurt, like into a building or on a fence. You need to change your glide slope… 1) What can you do to slow your forward speed down to near nothing and sink instead of fly, if you are overshooting your target and are going to hit the runway? 2) What can you do to get best glide so you can make it past a short fence or ditch that you did not see until the last minute or the headwinds picked up and now you need an extra 30 feet to clear some nasty mud? Again, for the sake of the question - assume turning is not an option... I don’t have that many jumps, and I have so much to learn, but my accuracy has increased a lot and my confidence has increased a lot because I have been using these skills. Since I am too new to offer the answers I was taught and have been using, perhaps some others might chime in? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salsa_John 0 #14 February 14, 2005 For what my 2 cents are worth. Randy is an excellent Diver and has helped me greatly with my landings. I have seen him land and this is very unusual. Glad you scraped by on that one.. "You did what?!?!" MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LittleOne 0 #15 February 14, 2005 "FINISH": quite a concept that eluded me until Scott made me yell it out loud. Glad you are ok. When I was at DeLand, I found the crisscrossing taxiways to be a bit unnerving too. I slammed in once so hard that I saw stars. Only my false sense of pride enabled me to get up and walk away (plus, I figured calling 911 would end up costing me a bundle). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffSkydiver 0 #16 February 15, 2005 Randy, Glad you're ok. 2 things: Once you turn on final, you should always have your feet and knees together with knees slightly bent, all the way until you stop. Second, absolutely no PLF whatsoever. Why not? jt* Let's all do this safe enough that we can still do this in our 90's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy_H 0 #17 February 15, 2005 Quote1) What can you do to slow your forward speed down to near nothing and sink instead of fly, if you are overshooting your target and are going to hit the runway? At my skill level, nothing. I've been taught to retain as much speed as you can to help with the flair. If you bleed off speed and drop, that is exactly what you will do, drop. And there won't be enough time for the canopy to recover enough forward speed for a good flair. Quote2) What can you do to get best glide so you can make it past a short fence or ditch that you did not see until the last minute or the headwinds picked up and now you need an extra 30 feet to clear some nasty mud? You could fly in 1/4 to 1/2 brakes (depending on where that "sweet spot" is on your canopy) and you will flatten out the glide and get a little more horizontal distance, then prepare to PLF since you will have a very weak flair. If I saw that I was going to slam into a fence, I would try it, but only as a last resort. QuoteAgain, for the sake of the question - assume turning is not an option... Very shallow turns are okay. As I get ready to hit the tarmac, you will see my right toggle is down to my shoulder while my left toggle is up in full drive. I was still trying a gentle sweeping turn but froze up when I realized I was going to land on the tarmac and didn't do anything else. No flair, no PLF. Hindsite is 20/20! 010010010110010101100001011101000111000001110101011100110111001101111001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy_H 0 #18 February 15, 2005 QuoteWhen I was at DeLand, I found the crisscrossing taxiways to be a bit unnerving too. yes, very much so, for new skydivers! QuoteI slammed in once so hard that I saw stars. Only my false sense of pride enabled me to get up and walk away (plus, I figured calling 911 would end up costing me a bundle). Right.... and while everything is in slo-mo while you are tasting the tarmac you are wondering if anything is shattering or breaking in the process. I jumped right back up and bent over to look at my knees and legs to see if anything didn't look normal! 010010010110010101100001011101000111000001110101011100110111001101111001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy_H 0 #19 February 15, 2005 Thanks for the kind words John, and congrats on your "A" License and jumping your own pack job. You've got balls because I watched you pack it and I sure as hell wouldn't have jumped it! (just kidding!)010010010110010101100001011101000111000001110101011100110111001101111001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy_H 0 #20 February 15, 2005 QuoteOnce you turn on final, you should always have your feet and knees together with knees slightly bent, all the way until you stop. I normally do, but I was so amped up on adrenaline from the dreaded "oh no, not the runway" rush that I didn't even think about it. QuoteSecond, absolutely no PLF whatsoever. Why not? I was still in the process of making a slow turn (excuses). Actually, again, my frame of mind at that moment had no rationalization to it whatsoever. And I didn't want pine to chew my ass about tearing up a rental rig! (just kidding on that, if you see this Pine!) My knees are now wired directly to the brain and in defense mode so I can assure everyone that next time I am going to land hard, I WILL PLF! But if I land on a tarmac again, it is no different from the grass. Just flair and finish!010010010110010101100001011101000111000001110101011100110111001101111001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #21 February 15, 2005 QuoteAt my skill level, nothing. I've been taught to retain as much speed as you can to help with the flair. If you bleed off speed and drop, that is exactly what you will do, drop. And there won't be enough time for the canopy to recover enough forward speed for a good flair. Maybe for the last few seconds of flight, but before that, clues should tell you that you are about to overshoot the second you turn onto final. We started this skydiving thing about the same time, so I am not qualified to say anything other than I have video proof of a technique I used to cut 250' off a bad turn onto final because I was jumping a unfamiliar canopy at an unfamiliar altitude… There were clowns to the left and jokers to the right, so I could not S-turn it or turn back to X-wind. But I still landed on my tiptoes, next to my friend who had the camera, right where I wanted to land. (The camera was NOT the motivation to make this happen, trees were, otherwise I would have kept it a normal full on approach.) Anyway, I am far from criticizing or even giving advice. My spirit is just challenging us both to be better canopy pilots. “Nothing” is a pretty strong word when the alternative is landing into the side of a building or downwind onto a runway. Anyway – my challenge to you was to go ask the questions to a few people much more experienced than I – not for you to tell me the answers… But, I respect your courage for posting your mistake on these forums and letting us all chime in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy_H 0 #22 February 15, 2005 post that video on skydivingmovies.com, I'd like to see it. Scott Miller never mentioned to me (at my skill level) a way to drop to a target if you are high above it. As far as being able to tell I was going to over shoot, I wasn't going to over shoot until the winds stopped gusting when I turned onto my base leg. I no longer had that strong headwind I was counting on. I'd like to see that video if you don't mind posting it! 010010010110010101100001011101000111000001110101011100110111001101111001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #23 February 15, 2005 QuoteI still have, or I should say, I HAD the newbie mentality about only wanting to land on the soft grass. Sounds like you also had the newbie mentality of needing to land into the wind. Be careful, that one has killed and maimed quite a few. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
