timbarrett 0 #1 June 9, 2005 Am i missing something?...that's not rhetorical, really! A bit of background first...50+ jumps, USPA A signed off and UK FS1 signed off...nearly all my jumping done with Skydive U in Deland...and i have just moved back to the UK and want to continue to learn - right now my focus is FS. I am finding it very difficult to get coaching to progress further. Am I right to be concerned and frustrated by this or should I just get on with finding a few new friends to jump with and figure it out ourselves? The attitude I am encountering here is "Oh, you have got your A. We don't really coach beyond that". My experience in other sports - i represented my country in one - and after i got my FAA PPL, makes me believe that all have now at my experience level is a "licence to learn". I remember the massive difference deciding to commit to a professional coach made to my previous sporting life. Sure, I can get together with a bunch of jumpers at my level and we can figure it out together and maybe get somebody to look the video of what we are up to and give us a few pointers. That would probably be quite fun - any jump feels good right now - but it doesn't strike me as very efficient. Maybe I will get lucky and get the occasional nice person to "jump a newbie" as Skybytch suggested. However right now I have the money to work with a coach but I do not have a lot of free time - especially when you discount that time for the UK weather. Is this issue a general problem for people at my stage? Is this something that explains the disappearance of so many post AFF jumpers? Is this a particular problem in the UK and I should just wait until my next break and get on plane back to Florida and the fantastic coaching I got there?...but that's way too long to wait. Should i try going down to Spain? Is there anyone who wants my money? Any and all thoughts on the general and specifics would be appreciated."Work hard, play hard and don't whinge" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #2 June 9, 2005 For me, it is about enjoyment, so I recommend that you find a friend or two and have some fun skydives. Plan them, get some recommendations so that they are mutual learning experiences, but have fun. I hear a little too much emphasis on coaching some times. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philyus 0 #3 June 9, 2005 Hey Tim.. I had exactly the same problem as you mate, in the end I ended up going to Spain a lot to get my FS1 etc, but I think if you get to a nice home DZ you are bound to hook up with some guys that will jump with you for you to progress. Wheres your home DZ? Phil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #4 June 9, 2005 QuoteFor me, it is about enjoyment, so I recommend that you find a friend or two and have some fun skydives. Plan them, get some recommendations so that they are mutual learning experiences, but have fun. I hear a little too much emphasis on coaching some times.During the an Otter boogie weekend, I had a hard time finding coaches to jump with me (I still had some fun solos at higher-than-usual altitudes).... but two weekends later, I got 7 volunteer jumps (coaches and instructors) and did funjumps and training jumps with them. Keep talking to people, keep making friends, stay at the dropzone's own camping site, get to know people... I also heard of a London skydivers group that meet for beer....try that too....funjump with them and learn at the same time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cayce 0 #5 June 9, 2005 I can offer some personal anecdotes from having recently experience much the same situation. I think I’m going to refer to my jumps from 50-100 as the dark ages of my continuing progression. Don’t get me wrong, I jumped with some great people, had a lot of fun, did lots of tracking dives, fun exits, formations, hybrids, RW, etc. But I didn’t do any serious training. So around 100 I jumped with one of my AFF coaches on just a 2 way fun jump to work on my sit flying, after watching me flail for the entire jump he says something to the effect of “What the hell have you been doing with the last hundred jumps?” So, I took some action, went up to Perris for a day of personal coach jumps and tunnel time then did the Bridge the Gap over at Elsinore the next day. So I had a weekend of just working on my sit flying with some great coaching feedback. That’s what it took to give me a foundation that I can build on and continue to progress without setting up bad habits and getting an awareness of safety issues with FF so that I am more comfortable jumping with my regular group. Maybe I’m just a slow learner, I mean heck, there’s someone down in the FF forum who looks to have nailed the sit flying in two jumps. Anyway, I seriously benefited from getting out of my regular group, paying for some concentrated one on one coaching, and just concentrating on the skills I wanted to increase proficiency in. It’s too easy for me to be trying to work on something at my regular DZ and someone grabs me and “twists my arm ;-)” to do a series of hybrids or something for the rest of the day when I was set to work on skills progression. That’s why it was good for me to step out for the weekend and specifically work on the skills progression I needed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeordieSkydiver 0 #6 June 9, 2005 Its depends where you jump, some DZ's have permanent coaches available all the time, in FS, FF and even canopy piloting. Just shop around the dz's (may I suggest using the DZ locater to check out the ones available near you) and find what you're looking for. Or do some fun FS jumps with friends, then share a team coach...Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skytash 0 #7 June 9, 2005 I had the same problems when I was at your stage, found some friends to jump with and sort of learnt that way. Not very well in some respects, had fun in the tunnel unlearning some things! It's one of the reasons I became a coach, and I'm happy to coach anyone who wants FS coaching, irrespective of what stickers they may have in their licence, and find I learn things on those jumps myself sometimes. A number of dropzones in the UK also have load organisers who will do smaller groups with more individual coaching as a result for people not comfortable with 14 ways. I feel if I mention names here it may be advertising, but if you let me know where you are in the UK, I'll PM you some places you may want to get in touch with. tashDon't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timbarrett 0 #8 June 9, 2005 tash, thks v much for any help. pls do PM me..i am living in London and have done a few jumps at Hinton so far...willing to travel tho' tim"Work hard, play hard and don't whinge" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timbarrett 0 #9 June 9, 2005 Phil, thks for the advice..i am living in London and have made a few jumps at Hinton so far..willing to travel tho'... did you find it easier to get coaching in Spain?If so, could you tell me where you did it. I have heard a lot of good things about Empuriabrava but not much about the coaching specifically."Work hard, play hard and don't whinge" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #10 June 10, 2005 Jan Meyer's thoughts on your situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #11 June 10, 2005 Tim, I'm wondering if this is a symptom of British culture, or what. Having experienced the "Bigger, faster, cheaper" essence of Yankee culture, you appear to be dissapointed in your countrymen's resistance to that. The whole European "club skydiving" thing is resistant to pay per service, it seems to me (and I am probably completely wrong) In a club situation, everybody comes up at a certain rate. A shit-disturber like you who wants to come up faster than that, and is willing to pay for the privelidge is problematic. Fortunately or unfortunately, we Americans are used to people with money getting treated better. If you want to be ready for US nationals in six months and have the dollars, you can be a tunnel rat and turbine queen and get there. I don't quite get why qualified jumpers in the UK aren't willing to bring you along for jump ticket plus pack job (which is what I charge for coach jumps). Culturally, maybe there is a "dirtyness" to taking your money for something that would be done for free, I don't know. I have no problem jumping with a jumper who has a low skill level, and having them pay my costs (no profit, slot and pack job). I enjoy teaching, and the student progresses much faster than they would just guessing about what was going on. Eventually you get so good I can't take your money in good conscious, and I invite you on my skydives cause you are good. That's the way I did it. I will never forget my coach, Hank Kolross, he took my money until he got me to the point where he said "I got nothing left to teach you. Let's go skydive" Best money I ever spent. You UK guys should take the money. Teach them to be good enough to jump with you for free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowie 0 #12 June 10, 2005 Hey Tim PM sent Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fjd 0 #13 June 10, 2005 Quote..... So, I took some action, went up to Perris for a day of personal coach jumps and tunnel time then did the Bridge the Gap over at Elsinore the next day. .... Cayce, is there a coaching program in Perris that combines personal coaching with tunnel time? and what is the Bridge the Gap at Elsinore? most importantly, how much did they cost you? =============== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caz 0 #14 June 10, 2005 Tim, sorry to hear you're having a bad time here in the UK. Come along to the next London Skydivers social night on the 23rd. We put these nights together specifically for people in your situation coming back to jump in the UK and not knowing anyone. Theres about 30-40 people coming along each month now. Click on the link in my signature, or search for a thread called London Skydivers in the Bonfire. ~~~ London Skydivers ~~~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timbarrett 0 #15 June 10, 2005 thks caz, i may be having some problems sorting things out on the coaching side but the skydiving community is just as full of great people here as anywhere else in the world! See you there.. tim"Work hard, play hard and don't whinge" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #16 June 11, 2005 TUNNEL Look me up if you are interested in time. Orlando, do or die Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #17 June 11, 2005 QuoteI have no problem jumping with a jumper who has a low skill level, and having them pay my costs (no profit, slot and pack job). I enjoy teaching, and the student progresses much faster than they would just guessing about what was going on. Eventually you get so good I can't take your money in good conscious, and I invite you on my skydives cause you are good. That's the way I did it. I need to meet some people like you at Perris... Lots of people post that they learn as much on 10 coached dives as 50 trying to do it on there own. At 44 dollars a coached dive (2 slots @19 plus a pack job @ 6), it seems to me its 50% CHEAPER to learn with a coach.Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efex 0 #18 June 12, 2005 Hydro, come over to hinton on a weekend and I will be more than happy to do that for you. I try to make myself available for coaching as much as possible whenever im around. Blue skies, Warwick University Skydiving Club Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #19 June 13, 2005 Where's Hinton? Guess I'll go to MapquestGet in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #20 June 13, 2005 Hinton? As in Canada? The Canadian Customs does NOT like me. I spent 3 hours once getting interrogated @ the Vancouver airport. They xrayed my luggage and clothes. Brought out a dog and had him sniff my crotch like 30 times. Ran a cloth over all my belongings, money, credit cards etc. Put the cloth in a machine, Machine said they found ionic traces of narcotics. So they strip searched me. Last year I was in Detroit for the NBA finals. Crossed the tunnel into Windsor. Got harrassed @ that crossing for an hour. They did NOT want me to enter Canada because I had a reckless driving 5 years prior. And all I wanted to do was buy my dad a bottle of Blue Label Johnnie Walker @ the Duty Free. Sorry, I will have to respectfully decline the invitation to Canada. (but I DO appreciate it!!!)Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeordieSkydiver 0 #21 June 13, 2005 Hinton as in Hinton, UK. Nice story though. rubber gloves and KY?Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #22 June 13, 2005 No rubber gloves...no KY...but they did check my arms for what I am assuming was needle marksGet in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #23 June 14, 2005 I'm sorry about your experience. My almost only criteria for jumping with a pre-licensed jumper as a coach is that they will listen and not give me a bunch of crap excuses. There is nothing but skydiving and tunnel time that will teach a person to fly at terminal velocity. You can only get better if you listen and implement the advice you are given. If you don't listen or don't do what I suggest, I will wait for you to learn the expensive and wasteful way by doing solos. Coaching is a joy that I indulge only for the teachable student, and I do it break-even, my cost for staff jump plus pack job. My current protege has joint French-US citizenship and is way too willing to pay way too much for coaching. I had to emphatically tell him that very soon, like Hank Kolross, my coach at that level, I want to have nothing left to teach and we'll be jumping as friends. He's very close. An example of the Byron love is that his 22'nd skydive was a 14 way speed star on him. It didn't build, but it's the love that counts. Congrats, Sam. Iwan you got a picture to share? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
