happythoughts 0 #26 April 12, 2004 QuoteIs this something that people just get lazy about as jump numbers go up? Under 200 jumps, lack of attention and seriousness. Over 200 jumps, comfortable/complacent. How many times do you drive your car with a soda in one hand while changing the radio station? Smoking a cig while talking on your cell phone and going 70mph? You are used to driving now. One day...you are having too much fun. It has been a great day, you are hanging with your best buddies in the world, you are doing excellent skydives...and you just get too relaxed. One time...I did a pin check for everyone on my load. I visually examined all the above list also. No one did it for me. I later did my own check. I would have died. In the years since, I have never been too busy. I visually check everyone that I can. Every load. In the boarding area and later on the plane. People think I'm just looking around. One of these days we'll jump together and you'll see it and think "He really does...every time". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #27 April 12, 2004 QuoteUnder 200 jumps, lack of attention and seriousness. Over 200 jumps, comfortable/complacent. bingo!!! QuotePeople think I'm just looking around. One of these days we'll jump together and you'll see it and think "He really does...every time". Be honest!!! You are looking at boobies!!!! Hey think this way...when a girl you are staring at says "Stop looking at my chest!" you can say "Chest?!?!? I was checking to see if you had your boobie strap...Er I mean chest strap routed correctly.""No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #28 April 12, 2004 QuoteBe honest!!! You are looking at boobies!!!! Ok, so I'm no candidate for sainthood. I used to be perfect and was going to start my own religion, then I discovered how much it messes up Easter for ya. I think that it great when I can express concern for people and look at boobies at the same time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #29 April 12, 2004 Funny thing - I get called "mother hen" all the time on the loading ramp. I am often jumping small ways with people with less than 100 jumps and I want to show them that safety is the prime concern on every jump. I gear check them on the ramp, then have them gear check me (while an expereinced jumper supervises them). On the ramp you will hear me pointing out issues about peoples rigs and it annoys some people - but almost every time I start looking I can find something wrong - from a twisted leg strap, tandem RSL that isn't conected (and I am not a TM), dytter that isn't on, alti not set right, and countless cheststraps routed wrong or not on (I make a stink about it - I will not let someone get on the airplane with their chestrap undone), misrouted bridle, uncocked PC, etc. This makes a great example for the newbie and I have seen the kids I've jumped with doing the same thing. They have learned from my example. I don't care if I piss off or annoy any jumpers with my safety checks. I do it for two very selfish reasons, 1) I don't want their gear to be the reason I get killed and 2) I don't want to attend another funeral for a jumper....I've been to too many already. I realize it will happen again, but it won't happen because of obvious gear fuckups of those sitting around me. Want to try something? Start doing a gear check about 6K - looking at your rings, chest strap, etc....if you do it for a long enough period of time you will notice those within eyesight will do it as well. Roger used to preach to us two things: 1) Wear your seatbelt - if you don't and the plane starts to crash, your friends will become your airbags. You will live, they won't. 2) Get on the plane ONLY when you are ready to jump. Most emergencies happen quick and you have usually less than 2 seconds to get out of the plane. Do you think you would have time to tighten your leg straps in that time? I have only experienced one engine failure - the right engine went into full beta and caused the plane to drop like a rock. The pilot said get ready to exit, and I was at the door before he finished that phrase. It was a light load and two people were busy doing gear checks during that time...luckily the pilot fixed the problem and there was no emergency. But those last two jumpers could have been stuck in the plane. What unnerves me is the DZs I have been to that don't do any gear checks. I love the excuse I often get on King Air's: It's to tight for gear check, and it's only been a few minutes what do you think could have happened in that time._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites askir 0 #30 April 12, 2004 well you must be a freestylist....with no camera ha ha ha just kidding man Perhaps i need to post the Tom piras video, the dude who had the premie sure feels like shit now for not having his gear checked, and just beleiving his own opinion, In aviation (mind you skydiving kinda falls in here) there has always been a redundancy factor, hydraulics havbe a manual override, dual instrumentation, reserve parachutes, etc. why not have a second set of fresh eyes look at your shit in case you missed something, may be it is not to save you but to save others on the load, perhaps after you see the video you could see that a simple gear check done by a second party would have prevented this terrible loss to our sport. Tom forgot to turn his cypress and the student never had someone look at how loose his BOC was, either of the two could have been easily caught. LIFE IS LIKE A CIGARETTE, YOU CAN SIT THERE AND WATCH IT BURN AWAY OR YOU CAN SMOKE THAT BITCH TO THE FILTER Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites apoil 0 #31 April 12, 2004 QuoteAt my DZ (Netheravon) and also I think it is a BPA regulation, everyone has a flightline gear check from someone else B licence or better (it is part of the IC1 test to be able to complete this check on someone). This is then signed off on the manifest - or you dont get on the plane. I know people hate extra regulation but I am sure that this saves lives - even if it is only one life every ten years. Particularly from those little things, like misrouted chest straps and uncocked P/Cs. There seems to be little to lose and everything to gain. Completely disagree with you here. What there is to lose is that britain is known for having a lockstep militaristic approach to rules and regulations in the sport, and it discourages people from ever jumping there. That and the weather. In response to a problem, often just a perceived one, the BPA responds with heavy regulation that doesn't always effectively address the issue. The ff1 and ff2 system is a classic example. It sets up all these rules (not merely guidelines) about who can and cannot freefly with whom, but doesn't actually promote learning or safety to that great an extent. And despite the regulations regarding gear checks, people have still died because of gear problems that should have been checked. So ultimately, it becomes nothing more than a hassle. Looking out for other people's gear is a good thing. But the guy that did this was stirring the pot unnecessarily, and in fact dangerously because he knowingly boarded the plane without his chest strap on. If someone intentionally tries to sneak weapons past the TSA to show how lacking security is, they will go to jail because they have broken the law. Same with this guy. He should be grounded for intentionally and flagrantly violating BSR's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ifics 0 #32 April 12, 2004 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Under 200 jumps, lack of attention and seriousness. Over 200 jumps, comfortable/complacent. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bingo!!! I can't comment on the "over 200 jumps" but I have under 200. The description "lack of attention and seriousness" does not describe my attitude... Is this something you notice about every person you see "Under 200 jumps"? edit: I understand what you are saying though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #33 April 12, 2004 QuoteFor the rest, I am not saying it is time to babysit, but the point was, assisting your fellow skydiver is a good thing. I will do it to someone now no matter how many jumps he or she has. It is just a simply thing that could one day save a life. Good enough Bro. Your original post was a very good thought for all to read. More than one person has died by falling out of their rig. Way more people have been saved by attentive skydivers looking after their buds. Blow off the flames ... semantics are not worth arguing about. Thanks for your post.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #34 April 12, 2004 QuoteI can't comment on the "over 200 jumps" but I have under 200. The description "lack of attention and seriousness" does not describe my attitude... Is this something you notice about every person you see "Under 200 jumps"? The "200 jumps" number was my answer to Lawrocket. LR had asked about reasons why people don't have their gear in order. The person with bridle hanging out, or a pc dangling, or the chest strap undone at 10K. If you have a serious attitude, then you probably aren't doing those things. You have to read the whole thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ifics 0 #35 April 12, 2004 yep, I read it. I understand the whole point now, thx. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #36 April 13, 2004 Quote can't comment on the "over 200 jumps" but I have under 200. The description "lack of attention and seriousness" does not describe my attitude... Is this something you notice about every person you see "Under 200 jumps"? edit: I understand what you are saying though... Not a slam at you.... But everyone thinks they are a good driver...Every skydiver also thinks they are safe, even the dangerous ones. You may be one or the other...But you will think you are safe either way. Complacency in this sport kills. People get comfertable around 70-150 jumps. Its a bad thing. Like I said it may not apply to you, but it is the norm...."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #37 April 14, 2004 I love the excuse I often get on King Air's: It's to tight for gear check, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Someone is jerking your chain! A King Air - with bobsled type benches - as got to be one of the easiest airplanes to do a gear check in! If I can do a full gear check on an IAD student in a full-loaded, narrow-body Cessna 182, then those King Air passengers are jerking your chain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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ChasingBlueSky 0 #29 April 12, 2004 Funny thing - I get called "mother hen" all the time on the loading ramp. I am often jumping small ways with people with less than 100 jumps and I want to show them that safety is the prime concern on every jump. I gear check them on the ramp, then have them gear check me (while an expereinced jumper supervises them). On the ramp you will hear me pointing out issues about peoples rigs and it annoys some people - but almost every time I start looking I can find something wrong - from a twisted leg strap, tandem RSL that isn't conected (and I am not a TM), dytter that isn't on, alti not set right, and countless cheststraps routed wrong or not on (I make a stink about it - I will not let someone get on the airplane with their chestrap undone), misrouted bridle, uncocked PC, etc. This makes a great example for the newbie and I have seen the kids I've jumped with doing the same thing. They have learned from my example. I don't care if I piss off or annoy any jumpers with my safety checks. I do it for two very selfish reasons, 1) I don't want their gear to be the reason I get killed and 2) I don't want to attend another funeral for a jumper....I've been to too many already. I realize it will happen again, but it won't happen because of obvious gear fuckups of those sitting around me. Want to try something? Start doing a gear check about 6K - looking at your rings, chest strap, etc....if you do it for a long enough period of time you will notice those within eyesight will do it as well. Roger used to preach to us two things: 1) Wear your seatbelt - if you don't and the plane starts to crash, your friends will become your airbags. You will live, they won't. 2) Get on the plane ONLY when you are ready to jump. Most emergencies happen quick and you have usually less than 2 seconds to get out of the plane. Do you think you would have time to tighten your leg straps in that time? I have only experienced one engine failure - the right engine went into full beta and caused the plane to drop like a rock. The pilot said get ready to exit, and I was at the door before he finished that phrase. It was a light load and two people were busy doing gear checks during that time...luckily the pilot fixed the problem and there was no emergency. But those last two jumpers could have been stuck in the plane. What unnerves me is the DZs I have been to that don't do any gear checks. I love the excuse I often get on King Air's: It's to tight for gear check, and it's only been a few minutes what do you think could have happened in that time._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
askir 0 #30 April 12, 2004 well you must be a freestylist....with no camera ha ha ha just kidding man Perhaps i need to post the Tom piras video, the dude who had the premie sure feels like shit now for not having his gear checked, and just beleiving his own opinion, In aviation (mind you skydiving kinda falls in here) there has always been a redundancy factor, hydraulics havbe a manual override, dual instrumentation, reserve parachutes, etc. why not have a second set of fresh eyes look at your shit in case you missed something, may be it is not to save you but to save others on the load, perhaps after you see the video you could see that a simple gear check done by a second party would have prevented this terrible loss to our sport. Tom forgot to turn his cypress and the student never had someone look at how loose his BOC was, either of the two could have been easily caught. LIFE IS LIKE A CIGARETTE, YOU CAN SIT THERE AND WATCH IT BURN AWAY OR YOU CAN SMOKE THAT BITCH TO THE FILTER Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apoil 0 #31 April 12, 2004 QuoteAt my DZ (Netheravon) and also I think it is a BPA regulation, everyone has a flightline gear check from someone else B licence or better (it is part of the IC1 test to be able to complete this check on someone). This is then signed off on the manifest - or you dont get on the plane. I know people hate extra regulation but I am sure that this saves lives - even if it is only one life every ten years. Particularly from those little things, like misrouted chest straps and uncocked P/Cs. There seems to be little to lose and everything to gain. Completely disagree with you here. What there is to lose is that britain is known for having a lockstep militaristic approach to rules and regulations in the sport, and it discourages people from ever jumping there. That and the weather. In response to a problem, often just a perceived one, the BPA responds with heavy regulation that doesn't always effectively address the issue. The ff1 and ff2 system is a classic example. It sets up all these rules (not merely guidelines) about who can and cannot freefly with whom, but doesn't actually promote learning or safety to that great an extent. And despite the regulations regarding gear checks, people have still died because of gear problems that should have been checked. So ultimately, it becomes nothing more than a hassle. Looking out for other people's gear is a good thing. But the guy that did this was stirring the pot unnecessarily, and in fact dangerously because he knowingly boarded the plane without his chest strap on. If someone intentionally tries to sneak weapons past the TSA to show how lacking security is, they will go to jail because they have broken the law. Same with this guy. He should be grounded for intentionally and flagrantly violating BSR's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifics 0 #32 April 12, 2004 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Under 200 jumps, lack of attention and seriousness. Over 200 jumps, comfortable/complacent. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bingo!!! I can't comment on the "over 200 jumps" but I have under 200. The description "lack of attention and seriousness" does not describe my attitude... Is this something you notice about every person you see "Under 200 jumps"? edit: I understand what you are saying though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #33 April 12, 2004 QuoteFor the rest, I am not saying it is time to babysit, but the point was, assisting your fellow skydiver is a good thing. I will do it to someone now no matter how many jumps he or she has. It is just a simply thing that could one day save a life. Good enough Bro. Your original post was a very good thought for all to read. More than one person has died by falling out of their rig. Way more people have been saved by attentive skydivers looking after their buds. Blow off the flames ... semantics are not worth arguing about. Thanks for your post.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #34 April 12, 2004 QuoteI can't comment on the "over 200 jumps" but I have under 200. The description "lack of attention and seriousness" does not describe my attitude... Is this something you notice about every person you see "Under 200 jumps"? The "200 jumps" number was my answer to Lawrocket. LR had asked about reasons why people don't have their gear in order. The person with bridle hanging out, or a pc dangling, or the chest strap undone at 10K. If you have a serious attitude, then you probably aren't doing those things. You have to read the whole thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifics 0 #35 April 12, 2004 yep, I read it. I understand the whole point now, thx. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #36 April 13, 2004 Quote can't comment on the "over 200 jumps" but I have under 200. The description "lack of attention and seriousness" does not describe my attitude... Is this something you notice about every person you see "Under 200 jumps"? edit: I understand what you are saying though... Not a slam at you.... But everyone thinks they are a good driver...Every skydiver also thinks they are safe, even the dangerous ones. You may be one or the other...But you will think you are safe either way. Complacency in this sport kills. People get comfertable around 70-150 jumps. Its a bad thing. Like I said it may not apply to you, but it is the norm...."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #37 April 14, 2004 I love the excuse I often get on King Air's: It's to tight for gear check, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Someone is jerking your chain! A King Air - with bobsled type benches - as got to be one of the easiest airplanes to do a gear check in! If I can do a full gear check on an IAD student in a full-loaded, narrow-body Cessna 182, then those King Air passengers are jerking your chain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
