downsizing question

[psf 1]

I am interested in downsizing by the end of this coming summer. I currently jump a sabre 170. I weight ~170. I have just over 300 jumps, expect to make another 100-150 before downsizing. I currently am able to do all the checks on the "downsizing" rec's. My question is, is going from a sabre 170 to a stilleto 150 unreasonable? Or should I consider going to a sabre 150, then a stilleto 150 later. Or would going to a stilleto 170 be another option. I am interested in the stilleto 150 but do not want to progress to fast, but nor do I want to "waste" money on an intermediate downsize if not really any benifit. Just looking for other points of view. Thanks.

ignorance is not bliss

[davelepka 4]

Quote

am interested in downsizing by the end of this coming summer.

Thats bad timing. You'll downsize, and then quit jumping for six months. Look to the middle fo the season. get your skills together, and your currency up, then downsize. Use the rest of the summer to learn your new canopy, then you'll be ready for the start of the next season when your currency is low.

Stay away from the Stiletto at this point. Are you jumping a Sabre or Sabre2? Either way the Sabre2 150 would be a great canopy to try.

Start calling PD for demos once you have 30 or 40 jumps this season. You may get put an a waiting list, so don't drag your feet. Demo the Sabre2 150, see what you think, and go from there.

[FrogNog 1]

It's not wasting money if it keeps you from breaking a bone. Even a cheap broken bone will probably cost more than all your gear. If you have good insurance then you may not have to pay anything, just sit around not being able to jump (or do any sports ) for 4 months.

I believe the Dropzone.com collective wisdom on downsizing and changing canopy types is that they should be done separately because they are cumulative risk factors. I do not recall which one people recommend doing first.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

I am interested in downsizing by the end of this coming summer. I currently jump a sabre 170. I weight ~170. I have just over 300 jumps, expect to make another 100-150 before downsizing. I currently am able to do all the checks on the "downsizing" rec's. My question is, is going from a sabre 170 to a stilleto 150 unreasonable?

Yes, it's unreasonable. The Stiletto is more sensitive to control input than most ellipticals. You don't want to deal with both the added responsiveness and speed at the same time.

Quote

Or should I consider going to a sabre 150, then a stilleto 150 later.

Yes, although you'd probably enjoy the openings and control response of a less aggressive non-square canopy more than the sabre 150. Spectre, Omega, Sabre-2, Safire, Lotus in no particular order.

Quote

I am interested in the stilleto 150 but do not want to progress to fast, but nor do I want to "waste" money on an intermediate downsize if not really any benifit. Just looking for other points of view. Thanks.

Canopies usually depreciate about $1 a jump. 100 jumps on each of two used canopies shouldn't cost you any more than 200 jumps on one canopy.

And if you're patient both buying and selling, you can buy a used canopy, put a couple hundred jumps on it, and sell it for at least what you paid.

[billvon 2,435]

>My question is, is going from a sabre 170 to a stilleto 150 unreasonable?

I wouldn't do it. The Stiletto is a whole different beast than the Sabre. Add the smaller size and you will have a very big transition to deal with.

Why do you want a Stiletto? Did you get a really good deal on one? They're not very good intermediate canopies. You'd likely be a lot happier with something like a Pilot 150; more consistent openings, easier to learn to fly and about the same speed. The only think you'll lose on will be turn performance, and I have a feeling you're not at the level yet where you are being held back by turn performance.

And as someone else mentioned, getting it at the end of the summer is a bad idea. Get it during a time you can make a lot of jumps, so you will be current on the old one and can get current on the new one.

[nathaniel 0]

The answer depends on you. 400 jumps at 170 lbs on a tapered 150 is not unheard of, and it's probably not uncommon. Tho it does seem a little bit more aggressive than your current canopy & experience. Maybe that's what you want.

Whether it's a bright idea for you is a separate question from whether other people have done it. Understand that you are probably increasing your likelihood of injury. There is practically no data available to anyone about either
* canopies -- except perhaps the manufacturers, but none has released detailed performance specifications
* or your abilities and your interests-- except to you and people who know you, such as your instructors & coaches

so for anybody to provide you with an evenhanded recommendation on this forum is quite hard. "It seems like" is about as accurate as anyone will be able to tell you.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[psf 1]

I appreciate all the feedback so far. I understand no one can give me "the answer". I was looking for other input to see if I am just ignoring, or missing another aspect to consider. And I am recieving that. Thank you for your inputs.

ignorance is not bliss

[TAXIWAY 0]

Lots of people have done what your asking. You definatly should not downsize before you skill is ready. When flying a smaller canopy currency is everthing. The more you jump the better your skill gets. My opinion is you should not down size until you can get everything your current canopy has to offer.

[GravityGirl 0]

What do you want to do with your canopy when you downsize?

I assume that you want to go faster, hence the downsize. But what is your normal approach? What kind of progression would you like to make in canopy flight? Better accuracy? Learn to swoop? Better penetration into the wind?

Each canopy pilot is different, with different wants, needs and desires. Try to pinpoint what you want out of a parachute, then we can help determine which parachute would best suit you.

Keep in mind that downsizing means less decision time in the pattern. So in preparation for a downsize, fly full flight the whole time. Fly your current canopy down quicker and at the same time, expand your awareness level of other canopies in the air with you.

Be aware of where you "fall into the pattern". Do this by judging the decent of other parachutes in relation to yours. Generally the lightly loaded parachutes will have more open air space because the majority of the other parachutes on the load are out-descending you. Once you increase that wing loading, you'll have more traffic.

In short. Downsizing is not just about the landing. It's about the ability to fly more aggressively from opening clear through to landing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[psf 1]

The points you raised show the info I did not mention. I am interested in obtaining my Pro Rating once eligible, as well as EVENTUALLY learning to swoop. Understand, I have no expectations to swooping for a few hundred more jumps. However, when that time comes, I want to already be on a canopy capable of that. I want to be fully comfortable with a canopy before becoming aggresive on said canopy.
I jump at a small drop zone, two cessna's. I most always am either the first on the ground (I plan it that way) or open high and hang out till others are down. I avoid turns low, and usaully set up for straight in with some s turns to burn off distance if needed.

ignorance is not bliss

[TAXIWAY 0]

My opinion is that you should learn to fly the canopy you have better then downsize. You can swoop larger canopies. You should also look in to goin to a larger drop zone that offers a conopy flying class or swooping class. What ever you deside just respect your canopy and most of all the ground.

[skybytch 259]

Quote

However, when that time comes, I want to already be on a canopy capable of that.

You already are. No, you won't likely be going 300 yards with it but it's a fine platform to begin learning more aggressive landing techniques under.

And with your current canopy you have the advantage of having just a bit more fabric over your head for those times when you screw up.

Quote

usaully set up for straight in with some s turns to burn off distance if needed.

S turns on final are a bad habit. Think about what you doing S turns does to the person coming in behind you.

It's far better and safer for those you share the air with to adjust your pattern so that you will land where you want to without doing S turns.

[billvon 2,435]

> I avoid turns low, and usaully set up for straight in with some s turns
> to burn off distance if needed.

This is an excellent reason to not downsize yet. Until you are comfortable turning low, I'd stick to the current canopy.

> I am interested in obtaining my Pro Rating once eligible. . . .

Another good reason to not downsize! I take significantly larger canopies on demos due to the greater consequences for not landing on target, and the need to stop quickly after landing. Learned that one the hard way.

[dharma1976 0]

Quote

I am interested in downsizing by the end of this coming summer. I currently jump a sabre 170. I weight ~170. I have just over 300 jumps, expect to make another 100-150 before downsizing. I currently am able to do all the checks on the "downsizing" rec's. My question is, is going from a sabre 170 to a stilleto 150 unreasonable? Or should I consider going to a sabre 150, then a stilleto 150 later. Or would going to a stilleto 170 be another option. I am interested in the stilleto 150 but do not want to progress to fast, but nor do I want to "waste" money on an intermediate downsize if not really any benifit. Just looking for other points of view. Thanks.

I would recommend maybe a light difference like a semi elliptical...try a sabre2 170 or a sabre 2 150, great canopies to learn to swoop on, those were my intro to swooping, I learned mostly on the sabre2 170 and then moved on to the 150 sabre 2 and then went to the elliptical canopies...and I have to say that I learned most of what I know about swooping on the 170 Sabre 2...now it is just working the setup...

so there is no real reason to downsize just yet until you have rung out your current canopy,which it sounds like you havent...and if you do start swooping remember to do some carving turns and not the pull and pray type...and if you dont know the difference read Brian Germains Book

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.