Question about training jumps

[Jeth 0]

Hey everybody,
I am confused about training. My DZ has a program that gives you all 20 jumps, so that when you graduate you can get your A license. But with the AFF programs, you only get like 8 or 9 jumps and then you're on your own? But then don't you still need to be supervised? So how do you get the rest of your jumps? Do you just have to ask licensed jumpers to go with you? I can't believe someone would be off student status with only 8 jumps.

Thanks for any info.

Jeth

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[kingbunky 3]

in canada, completion of the pff program (7 levels), plus the iad jumps you have to make before you begin, more or less qualify you for a solo certificate. there is a written test and a couple of other pre-requisites, but that's it. at this point, you can jump by yourself unsupervised, although generally only at the dz that issued the certificate. other dz's may require a coach jump to see how you make out. these solos are not required, but are a good break to practice your maneuver series and just have fun before you get back into the program to get your a.

before you can get your a, there are a number of pre-requisites, including 5 coach jumps (levels actually, may take more than 5 jumps to complete them) to get signed of for 1-1 rw. you also have a written test, a minimum freefall time, a maneuver series and 10 landings within 10m of the target.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

In the USA you require coached supervision to complete the majority of your remaining skydives in order to obtain your A-license which comes at 25 jumps; not 20.

[ZoneRat 0]

Typically, when you pass the AFF student jump progression you are approved to "self jumpmaster". That is, jump solo.

By passing AFF, you've proven that you CAN safely jump by yourself.

You get to relax and have some fun without all the pressure associated with the student progression. It's fun! But keep your eye towards getting that A.

There are specific tasks you have to perform during your solo jumping in order to become licenced.

Your instructors and/ or certified coaches will be able to sit down with you and explain exactly what you have to do to get your A.

When you do, you can jump with others. This will open up a whole new world of skydiving!

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[Jeth 0]

So after student status, you don't have to go up with a jump master? But then to get the rest of the qualifying jumps for the license, you have to jump with an instructor or coach?
(I.E. after student status I could take some jumps by myself just for fun, but to get credit towards a license, I would have to go up with the instructor?)

Thanks!

p.s. kingbunky, I love your picture!

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[ZoneRat 0]

Yeah. That's more or less it.

Although your solos can (and some really should be)just pressure free fun jumps, on many of your solos you'll want to do stuff that will qualify you for your A as well as the instructor jumps.

Like I say, your instructors will fill in the details for ya when the time comes.

For right now, it's probably best to concentrate on only those tasks required for your next AFF jump.

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[larsrulz 0]

What you're asking about is the difference between student status and licensed status. Until you get 25 jumps and complete all necessary requirements for the A license, then you are still a student. According to the USPA this just means that you have maximum wind requirements (14 mph), minimum opening altitude (3K', same as A license), minimum distance to hazard requirements (DZ issue, again same as A), and certain gear requirements (such as AAD, altimeter, helmet...things you should have no matter if licensed or not).

The primary difference you will see is how specific DZs treat student vs. licensed skydivers. My home DZ requires you use their student gear packed by their packers (or your own packing supervised). I know of other DZs that allow students to buy their own gear as soon as they are cleared to solo. My DZ let students solo jump (without a coach/JM) as soon as they showed they were proficient at the necessary skills (although you still need 5 coach jumps for the A license. The way Chuck says it, sounds like maybe some DZs require a student to always have a coach/JM clear them out the door for all student jumps.

Any solo jumps you do still count towards the required 25 jumps for your license, but there are certain requirements that must be met for the A license (swooping in freefall, fall rate control, etc.), so a certain number of coached jumps are required for your license.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[Jeth 0]

Ok, I get the idea, thanks. I guess I'll find out exactly how it is at my DZ when I get into the course.

Thanks!!

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[Fast 0]

The difference is that the DZ you have listed in your profile has a pretty proggresive training program that has gone through more adjustment than regular AFF programs.

Its more time with an instructor and more guided in getting things together. Either way you have to have an instructor to sign off on the requirements for the Lic, its just at SDC the program is detailed out much more and longer than AFF so you get more exposure to different things. (Not to say other DZs have bad training)

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Daskal 1]

Basically everyone who replied pretty much has gotten it correct. The fact that you have been cleared to self-supervise in freefall by a USPA Instructor means that you have proven competence in the basic survival skills to jump safely on your own. Besides having fun, your objective now is to learn how to safely skydive in groups. The purpose of the solo jumps between AFF/SL/IAD and the Coached jumps is to get you used to tracking on your own, which is probably the most important skill that the coached jumps work on, as you need to be able to get clear from a freefall formation in order to deploy safely. Practice the category "F" tracking sequences on your solo jumps, and please ask a USPA Coach or Instructor for advice on tracking techinques. Once you are comfortable with tracking on your own, then the category "G" and "H" coached jumps are designed to teach you how to exit the plane in groups, dock in freefall, perform fall rate adjustments, swoop down to dock on a formation, and safely track away from the coach. Sometime during this period a USPA Instructor or Coach will take you up to 5,500 feet and then to 3,500 feet where your objective will be to exit the plane and deploy while stable within a few seconds. This is designed to prepare you for a possible emergency exit at a lower altitude, as well as to introduce former AFF students to the fun of exiting low on poor weather days, or just for canopy practice. Once all of this is complete, as well as all of the other tasks on your yellow card are filled out, a USPA Instructor of any discipline will take you up for a check out dive, and issue you a temporary USPA "A" license if you successfully pass.

[damion75 0]

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So after student status, you don't have to go up with a jump master?

There may be a terminology difference between the US and the UK, but in the UK every lift has a jump master designated who is 'b' licence qualified as a minimum and has certain duties and responsibilities.

Students who have complete the 8 x AFF jumps need to complete 10 solo jumps (consolidation or consols) before qualifying, and their JM must be an instructor qualified to dispatch students.

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[nightjumps 1]

As skymonkeyONE stated, it takes 25 jumps to get your "A" License. There are eight categories (A-H) that are required to be completed which does not necessarily equate to a specific number of jumps (depending on instructional methodology; AFF, Tandem or IAD/SL).

8 Jumps comes from the AFF Program where you "graduated" from AFF and were signed off to do solos or make Coach jumps for the rest of your 25 to get your "A" license.

[yoink 321]

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So after student status, you don't have to go up with a jump master?

There may be a terminology difference between the US and the UK, but in the UK every lift has a jump master designated who is 'b' licence qualified as a minimum and has certain duties and responsibilities.

Students who have complete the 8 x AFF jumps need to complete 10 solo jumps (consolidation or consols) before qualifying, and their JM must be an instructor qualified to dispatch AFF students.

can't be a BI/CSI...

[damion75 0]

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So after student status, you don't have to go up with a jump master?

There may be a terminology difference between the US and the UK, but in the UK every lift has a jump master designated who is 'b' licence qualified as a minimum and has certain duties and responsibilities.

Students who have complete the 8 x AFF jumps need to complete 10 solo jumps (consolidation or consols) before qualifying, and their JM must be an instructor qualified to dispatch AFF students.

can't be a BI/CSI...

You learn something new every day!
Any idea why?

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[Jeth 0]

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The difference is that the DZ you have listed in your profile has a pretty proggresive training program that has gone through more adjustment than regular AFF programs.

Its more time with an instructor and more guided in getting things together. Either way you have to have an instructor to sign off on the requirements for the Lic, its just at SDC the program is detailed out much more and longer than AFF so you get more exposure to different things. (Not to say other DZs have bad training)

Ya, it definitely seems that way. I think for me that would be better since I have major doubts that I can skydive by myself so I need all the instruction I can get! (To build confidence)
So with the regular AFF program, to get the coached jumps can you just go to any DZ and ask for a coach? Then you pay extra to have the coach go with you? Do you generally use the same coach for all of them or just whoever may be there?

Thanks!

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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The way Chuck says it, sounds like maybe some DZs require a student to always have a coach/JM clear them out the door for all student jumps.

Not at all. If you are "cleared for self supervision" (after Cat E here), then you do not need anyone to "spot" for you on whatever solo jumps you do.

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Any solo jumps you do still count towards the required 25 jumps for your license, but there are certain requirements that must be met for the A license (swooping in freefall, fall rate control, etc.), so a certain number of coached jumps are required for your license.

All category F,G, and H A-licence requirements must be done under the supervision of at least a Coach rated jumper. Yes, all your jumps, supervised or not, count toward your 25 jump total needed for your A-license. That said, it is entirely possible to screw around, have 25 jumps, and have not "checked the blocks" on your A-card. Simply having 25 jumps does not mean that you have an A-license.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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So with the regular AFF program, to get the coached jumps can you just go to any DZ and ask for a coach? Then you pay extra to have the coach go with you? Do you generally use the same coach for all of them or just whoever may be there?

No matter what US dropzone you go to, you should show up with a properly filled-out A-license proficiency card (if you are still unlicensed) and logbook. Yes, most places are going to charge you for Coach jumps and the rate varies. The $75 charged at one of the dropzones I work at covers both slots, gear rental, and the whopping $10 the coach makes for briefing you on the jump, taking you on the skydive, and then debriefing you and filling out your logbook and A-card. Yes, there are some places where you can find Coach and Instructor-rated people willing to jump with you for cost of slot or even nothing, but don't expect it. Just know that you are a student until you have that card filled out and stamped, so you should try and get that done in as timely a manner as possible.

It's those extra costs which led me to respond to your initial post. You see, unless that drozpzone is also providing you with the requisite coaching after your basic training (whether AFF, SL, IAD, whatever hybrid they might come up with), then simply "giving" you the rest of the jumps up to 20 (not the requisite 25) is misleading.

Chuck

[Jeth 0]

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It's those extra costs which led me to respond to your initial post. You see, unless that drozpzone is also providing you with the requisite coaching after your basic training (whether AFF, SL, IAD, whatever hybrid they might come up with), then simply "giving" you the rest of the jumps up to 20 (not the requisite 25) is misleading.

Chuck

Ok, I see. I do think all of the jumps in the AFP course are instructor-supervised. But it is a bit misleading because I'll still need 5 more after that. (And it doesn't say what they charge for those.) I'll definitely double-check what the FULL total would be to complete all 25 jumps.

Thanks for the info!

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[somethinelse 0]

Hey great in-put!

I've had a lot of the same concerns as JETH, when it comes to looking ahead to the time after training...
PLUS it's good to be reminded about being on top of getting the proficiency card filled out right away when you've learned/done something that counts towards that A-licence!

Thanks from ALL us students...GOOD LUCK JETH!

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[JustaBill 0]

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Ok, I see. I do think all of the jumps in the AFP course are instructor-supervised. But it is a bit misleading because I'll still need 5 more after that. (And it doesn't say what they charge for those.) I'll definitely double-check what the FULL total would be to complete all 25 jumps.

Thanks for the info!

I just finished the AFP program at SDC and they didn't extend the course after USPA raised the license requirement to 25. I was able to just do 3 solos (had 2 static line jumps before I started the course) to finish up. Just the cost of the normal slot and gear rental.

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I'm now expected to do everything with nothing forever