Opening a Dropzone

[fasterisbest 0]

Hello,

I am interested in opening a drop zone in Canada. It would mostly be a commerical tandem operation but it could very well evolve into a sport dropzone as well. My question to the forum is: where is the best place to start looking for information on the rules and regulations of opening a dropzone?

Any other useful information that you could add would be appreciated.

See ya.

[MrBrant 0]

use an ingloo instead of a hanger

[IanHarrop 37]

I suggest you get in touch with CSPA and start your investigation there.

http://www.cspa.ca/

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[RMURRAY 1]

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Hello,

I am interested in opening a drop zone in Canada. It would mostly be a commerical tandem operation but it could very well evolve into a sport dropzone as well. My question to the forum is: where is the best place to start looking for information on the rules and regulations of opening a dropzone?

Any other useful information that you could add would be appreciated.

See ya.

ask a person who took over an established DZ in Ontario and who failed to make a go of it. I think we need fewer DZs - maybe then the existing ones can be more profitable. I have seen many come and go. Just my opinion.

rm

[IanHarrop 37]

Quote

Hello,

I am interested in opening a drop zone in Canada. It would mostly be a commerical tandem operation but it could very well evolve into a sport dropzone as well. My question to the forum is: where is the best place to start looking for information on the rules and regulations of opening a dropzone?

Any other useful information that you could add would be appreciated.

See ya.

I don't know what took me so long to remember the solution to this:

Opening a dropzone in Canada is the same as getting a business worth $1 Million.

First, you start with $10 Million...

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Trae 1]

in reply to "where is the best place to start looking for information on the rules and regulations of opening a dropzone? "
......................

Perhaps not here

Hope you make good service and excellence a priority rather than money.
Just remember if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

Good luck with your enterprise .

[teason 0]

Well, I've got good news and I've got bad news.

Good news.
In Canada, Skydiving is purely self regulated (with the exception of Demo jumping)
For info on Skydiving, CSPA will tell you all you need to know.

Bad News.
Transport Canada regulates the piss out of the aircraft. To have a plane that can take jumpers, you'll need an aircraft operaters certificate or AOC. This means that you must be a comercial operation and jump all hoops of such. You'll also need an operations manual and $2500 just to apply for the AOC.
As a comercial Tandem operation, this is where you'll need to start for a Canadian DZ.

More bad news.
Tandem Masters are few and far between. You'll need a way to attract TMs to your DZ. You'll also have to replace the ones you lose due to turnover. In my province, there are only 4 TMs. 2 work at my DZ and I'm one of them (I'm also the DZO and often the FJC instructor!)

Your main challenges are going to be staff depth and Aircraft. After that, you'll have to deal with opening in an already saturated market, town councils, hostile locals and complying to CSPA regs. Luckily, if you have CSPA rated instructors, at least that won't be too bad.

p.s. don't sacrifice your home, job, friends, relationship and quality of life like I did chasing my dream. For a long time it was all I ever wanted and in the end it wasn't worth it.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[kingbunky 3]

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Bad News.
Transport Canada regulates the piss out of the aircraft. To have a plane that can take jumpers, you'll need an aircraft operaters certificate or AOC. This means that you must be a comercial operation and jump all hoops of such. You'll also need an operations manual and $2500 just to apply for the AOC.
As a comercial Tandem operation, this is where you'll need to start for a Canadian DZ.

you can get around this bit if you can find someone to lease you a plane and fly under the owners AOC. leasing costs more, but it would also drastically reduce your startup costs. once you've been up and running for a bit, you'll have a better handle on costs and whether or not to invest in your own plane and AOC.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[riggerrob 561]

... you can get around this bit if you can find someone to lease you a plane and fly under the owners AOC. leasing costs more, but it would also drastically reduce your startup costs. once you've been up and running for a bit, you'll have a better handle on costs and whether or not to invest in your own plane and AOC.

[riggerrob 561]

More bad news.
Tandem Masters are few and far between. You'll need a way to attract TMs to your DZ. You'll also have to replace the ones you lose due to turnover.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"This would be an easy business if it weren't for for all the staffing problems." Don Balch, long time California DZO.

Face it, tandem instructors can be whiny, lazy, self-centered, prima donnas.
The best way to reduce whining is to keep them so busy (i.e. back-to-backloads) that they do not have time to whine, or at least you cannot hear their whining over the roar of the airplane engine.
Hee!
Hee!
The other way to stop whining is to pay them better than neighboring DZs. Tandem wages have been unrealistically low for decades. If you want the best TIs, you have to be willing to pay them.
Paying better than neighboring DZs is also a great way to steel staff, because TIs are sluts/whores/mercenaries who will cheerfully work for whoever pays the best. If you are smart, you will hire the best mercenaries who say: "These are my wind/weight/altitude limits" and refuse to budge. At least you know where you stand with mercenaries.
You would probably be smarter to start with one old-fart TI (who understands the business) and a crop of freshly certified TIs that you can mold into your business model.
That will be far easier than trying to retrain TIs from other DZs.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Face it, tandem instructors can be whiny, lazy, self-centered, prima donnas.
The best way to reduce whining is to keep them so busy (i.e. back-to-backloads) that they do not have time to whine, or at least you cannot hear their whining over the roar of the airplane engine.

Isn't that the truth. Nothing more boring that waiting around forever for your next passenger when everyone else is fun jumping. A good manifester and support staff can make the job a lot of fun. I'll work for less money if there is less headache involved.

• Quote

[sid 1]

Hey Rob, you know the difference between a Tandem Instructor and a turbine engine? When you shut the turbine off, the whining stops

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[teason 0]

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you can get around this bit if you can find someone to lease you a plane and fly under the owners AOC. leasing costs more, but it would also drastically reduce your startup costs. once you've been up and running for a bit, you'll have a better handle on costs and whether or not to invest in your own plane and AOC.

They still have to comply with CAR702. While a skydiving operation (like Ian's) will already have this, any other comercial op will have to have skydiving expressed in their own AOC. I believe it's still $2500 to apply for the change.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[fasterisbest 0]

I know the Chows relatively well. I learnt at STI. I will be back jumping there this summer. I will certianly have a talk to Joe. THanks for the info.

[fasterisbest 0]

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p.s. don't sacrifice your home, job, friends, relationship and quality of life like I did chasing my dream. For a long time it was all I ever wanted and in the end it wasn't worth it.

Alright mate, fair enough, but, I have not seen to many dropzones in canada that are real commercial operations, and by this i mean a tandem factory. Furthermore, they are not in prime locations. I learned to jump at Skydive Toronto. Now, they just moved from bloody Angus to the other side of the 400 close to Cookstown. Both places are not really that great. Well, I would have to say the Angus location was better than the Cookstown location because of its close proximity to Wasaga Beach. However, the Cookstown DZ did look like it was going to be real classy. Beautiful new hanger. But Cookstown isn't really a real big touristsy spot, quite frankly, who would ever want to go to Cookstown other than to stop for a piss at the McDonalds? Follow me?

Moving on. What tandem student wants to land in a cow field where nothing but highways and flat land is to be seen under canopy? Not me. So we take them to a beautiful place where the sites are spectacular. And we land on an island or a beach. I plan to take skydiving to a brand new level in Canada. It will be top class, organized, well planned and well advertised.

As far as staff is concerned, well, this operation will be at the very least a two-way partnership. ONe of the partners being the pilot and the other a fairly qualified skydiver. The skydiver, myself, has been travelling around the world skydiving for the last 6 months. I have made lots of good contacts and also many experienced TI's who are eager to jump abroad. I certianly understand the kind of problems you can have with staff. I have seen it happen.

I appreciate all your discouraging info, truely I do. It can only better prepare me for the obstacales I will face.

Any other info is more than welcome.

[980 0]

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So we take them to a beautiful place where the sites are spectacular.

it just so happens that you can see Niagara Falls and Lake Erie in freefall most days and Lake Ontraio and the T.O. skyline too on clear days at my home DZ and it's nearby neighbour

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And we land on an island or a beach.

damn, if only you could do that in Ontario, oh wait, I have...

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I plan to take skydiving to a brand new level in Canada.

good luck to you sir, I hope you realize how high you should be aiming, like I said, there are 2 DZs in Ontario with the view I described and as it happens they both fly Turbines and will get you to 13500-14000ft...

not to even mention the spectacular views of the 1000 Islands and puffy clouds if you jump at Gan...

I really hope you have checked out every DZ in your target area to know what the competition really looks like, not just one or two...

cya
sam

[RMURRAY 1]

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p.s. don't sacrifice your home, job, friends, relationship and quality of life like I did chasing my dream. For a long time it was all I ever wanted and in the end it wasn't worth it.

Alright mate, fair enough, but, I have not seen to many dropzones in canada that are real commercial operations, and by this i mean a tandem factory. Furthermore, they are not in prime locations. I learned to jump at Skydive Toronto. Now, they just moved from bloody Angus to the other side of the 400 close to Cookstown. Both places are not really that great. Well, I would have to say the Angus location was better than the Cookstown location because of its close proximity to Wasaga Beach. However, the Cookstown DZ did look like it was going to be real classy. Beautiful new hanger. But Cookstown isn't really a real big touristsy spot, quite frankly, who would ever want to go to Cookstown other than to stop for a piss at the McDonalds? Follow me?

Moving on. What tandem student wants to land in a cow field where nothing but highways and flat land is to be seen under canopy? Not me. So we take them to a beautiful place where the sites are spectacular. And we land on an island or a beach. I plan to take skydiving to a brand new level in Canada. It will be top class, organized, well planned and well advertised.

As far as staff is concerned, well, this operation will be at the very least a two-way partnership. ONe of the partners being the pilot and the other a fairly qualified skydiver. The skydiver, myself, has been travelling around the world skydiving for the last 6 months. I have made lots of good contacts and also many experienced TI's who are eager to jump abroad. I certianly understand the kind of problems you can have with staff. I have seen it happen.

I appreciate all your discouraging info, truely I do. It can only better prepare me for the obstacales I will face.

Any other info is more than welcome.

bracebridge to cookstown is 1 h 51 min (est). That is a bit of a drive. However, lots of people drive further. I drive about 2.5 hours to do team jumping at Frontier Skydivers in NY state. You can see the Falls from that DZ as well.

rm

[teason 0]

... speechless


So much to say ....


Good luck

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.