Drop Zone Ethics - 101 (In Kansas City)

[divnswoop 0]

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stakes are high for skydiving and the sport/aviation as a whole for screw-ups due to in-experience, incompetence. see outrageous operating expense that were nowhere near the levels they are at now. due to huge increases in insurance, etc. due to all the jump plane crashesthere have been the last three years and other accidents. it's really simple. we been down this road here already in kc. it cost aviation 27 million dollars in successful lawsuits and 6 deaths, this is fact. due to what i stated above. later.

and

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I last worked on staff at Skydive Texas a little over two years ago up until they closed down after their Porter crash.

Sounds like you should be attacking Skydive Texas instead of the KC dz.....

I have had the pleasure of working the Paul and Jo for a year...they are good people. As far as slamming them saying they can't handle a high volume operation, they have worked at a place with volume YOU can't even imagine. I have known DZO's who have every rating you can have. I have known DZO's who have 5 jumps. Both have the ability to run a awesome dz....or run it into the ground.

Maybe it's all the negativity that has cause the lack of jumpers in KC.....

[darnknit 0]

i understand your position, and i realize that your motive is purely the intense love that you have for skydiving and skydivers everywhere. it is obvious that your soul intent is to promote skydiving in as safe a manner as possible.

that is why i am sending a case of beer to KCSC in your name. we can all see your good wishes towards KCSC(some people may think that you are casting dispersions upon the new dz, but i realize that you are only trying to help), and i personally applaud your effort to minimize risk. you are an absolute Godsend to any dropzone you visit. i just love the way YOU promote skydiving, and EXEMPLIFY the attitude of skydivers evreywhere.

you don't need to keep explaining yourself to me, champ. i get it.

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[flyboy6554 3]

I REALLY thought this nonsense was finally over, but guess I WAS WRONG!!

Good to see the spies are already out taking snapshots of the new dz! Jumper410, why don't you contact the NSA and see if they can reposition one of their national reconaissance satellites over Harrisonville, MO so you can maintain round the clock surveillance of the new dz and then publish the pics here on a weekly basis? Some of us have jobs and lives and can't make it out there every weekend, but we would appreciate the frequent updates on the facilities that you have such an interest in.

I made four fabulous jumps out there this past weekend and had a blast with everybody.

Blue Skies!!

[skydived19006 4]

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You got that many student and can't afford to operate a bigger aircraft. or at least bring in one for busy weekends, you know ahead of time there coming. There is no good reason to bump your regulars to cater to tandems other then being greedy or broke or both. JMO

DITTO

Thanks for saying that Strato. I have seen a situation like that or two....


I remember being a student all too well and it was one hell of a long time ago.. and then I went thru it all over again just 3 years ago. My how times had changed...

When I was a student BACK IN THE DAY.. they could not wait for me to finish my static line progression at my DZ so they could do 4 way with me before I had 20 jumps.

The new place I trained at 3 years was a tandem mill, and that was what was all important.. the DZO's bottom line. ONce he was not making $100 a jump off you .. he basically did not give a rats ass about you unless you were making money for him( told me that to my face). He did not have the lift capacity to really support anything more than his tandem factory... or at least that was the way he ran it.
As long as you did not mind doing solo's with a tandem and TI and Videographer.... you could manage to squeeze on a load here or there.

A two tandem and TI's load would fill the plane go up and drop.. and them come back down and sit on the ground for 30 minutes until the next set of tandems were ready to go( god forbid a tandem would have to wait ). Experienced jumpers COULD HAVE gotten another load in between but manifest just was not geared toward that....if the plane was doing tandems.. that was all it was doing.

In summer when he would lease a Caravan.... it would sit on the ground so that he could maximize profit out of his own C-182's.. the Caravan would not fly until the Tandems were being inconvienienced and had 3 or 4 of them ready to go and even then it would take 12 or more on the plane for it to roll.


Personally I dont want to see anyone having to wait... I have been to a LOT of well run DZ over my jumping career and luckily most of them are run by DZO's who are jumpers and are not totally eaten up by greed and can manage their DZ to make it fun for EVERYONE.. students.. tandems... and upjumpers.. and they STILL manage to amke a profit.

Part of making everyone happy at the DZ is putting SOME of that profit BACK into the business and providing the aircraft that todays jumpers want.

The other DZ in this area.. KNOWs how to do this.. with their Otter.. and the Cessna... I dont mind jumping from the cessna when there are not enough people to roll the super otter wiht -34 turbines..... I do not mind the hop and pops that our NW weather foists on us with low cloud decks all too frequently...I dont mind this DZO hustling people to get ready for loads... its well run.. and more of us get to jump... BUT they have invested the money in their family businsess to keep everyone happy.
To me.. that is good customer service.. and I do not mind that 2 hour drive to spend my money there.


Rather than fighing the inevitability of someone who is out competing the OLD DZ.. perhaps a change in ways of the OLD DZ's is in order so they can compete. Some of the threads concerning the DZ's there have been a study in nastiness..... its not doing ANYONE anygood because frankly....the fighting does more to make skydiving look bad.... than does a business trying to get started and doing more with less facilities to get off the ground and provide better service than what HAS been the norm there in the area.

My wife and I own Air Capital Drop Zone located near beautiful Wichita Kansas. Up until a month or so I had a “competing” DZ across town, and the situation provided a nice balance for the city. That DZ closed for a few reasons, but I think the main one being negative cash flow, time required by the owners to run it, etc. (you’d have to ask the owners). That basically leaves my DZ as the only one in/near Wichita (Skydive Suppesville is still there, and I actually called the owner and asked that they start flying to help the situation, long story I guess). Seems that there are an over abundance of people here who know how to run a fun and profitable DZ regardless of expenses, demographics, economy, etc. If anyone’s interested in starting a DZ in the Wichita area, I’d welcome the competition.

I know, I know, “buy another airplane”. I don’t want to for multiple reasons (initial cost isn’t one of them). Again, here’s another opportunity for some of the enterprising and highly knowledgeable skydivers here. I’ll allow you to purchase an airplane, hanger it at my DZ and we’ll fly it. I’ll charge you a couple of bucks a slot to help with my expenses, and you can insure it, maintain it, pilot it, etc. If you think I’m bull shit’n, I’m not! Serious inquiries only please! 316-776-1700 ask for Martin.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[airtwardo 6]

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Again, here’s another opportunity for some of the enterprising and highly knowledgeable skydivers here.

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Sounds like a lead in for the old joke about 'how to have a million bucks being a DZO!'







....START with TWO!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[pilotdave 0]

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I’ll allow you to purchase an airplane, hanger it at my DZ and we’ll fly it. I’ll charge you a couple of bucks a slot to help with my expenses, and you can insure it, maintain it, pilot it, etc.

You make that sound like a joke, but there are airplane owners out there that probably would buy a plane to fly at your DZ if you have the business to support it. You'd pay them of course, but it's not such a crazy idea.

Dave

[skydived19006 4]

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You make that sound like a joke, but there are airplane owners out there that probably would buy a plane to fly at your DZ if you have the business to support it. You'd pay them of course, but it's not such a crazy idea.

Dave

Dave/All,

I know it’s not a crazy idea, and I am serious. Wichita is a big enough market to support two 182s easily enough, that said I think the second airplane would most likely run in the red, which is one reason I’m not so interested in doing it myself. I just thought I’d put the offer out there since so many people here know more about DZ expenses, etc than the people who are already in the business.

I know that if all my DZ did was fly fun jumpers, the expense to income ratio would be extremely tight to say the least. Granted, I could eliminate some existing expense as I wouldn’t be advertising, etc. Flying fun jumpers at $19 a slot just does not allow for many “unplanned expenses”. Spending $2,000 on prop maintenance, radios, cylinder replacement, etc, etc, could easily burn up a years “profit”. How many people do you know that want to spend 1000 hours a year of their “spare” time to run a business hoping to be lucky enough to break even at the end of the year (that’s called a club, hats off to the few that still exist!)? Long-story-short, that’s why the money making portion (generally Tandems) of the business take priority.

No calls yet, I'll let you know when I find that airplane.

Martin

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Sounds like you have been looking over my shoulder.I just got through running a very expensive party with very little to show for it.But hell we all had a good time.


.

[skymama 35]

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Sounds like you have been looking over my shoulder.I just got through running a very expensive party with very little to show for it.But hell we all had a good time.

And, we all love you for it!!!!

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[jumper410 0]

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I last worked on staff at Skydive Texas a little over two years ago up until they closed down after their Porter crash.

Sounds like you should be attacking Skydive Texas instead of the KC dz.....

I have had the pleasure of working the Paul and Jo for a year...they are good people. As far as slamming them saying they can't handle a high volume operation, they have worked at a place with volume YOU can't even imagine. I have known DZO's who have every rating you can have. I have known DZO's who have 5 jumps. Both have the ability to run a awesome dz....or run it into the ground.

Maybe it's all the negativity that has cause the lack of jumpers in KC.....

oh, okay, you tell me who i should be attacking! and more volume than i can imagine? uh huh huh. listen tex, i done wurked at dz's frum coast-ta-coast, seen it all, well alot. from hawaii to maine and down to aruba. now tell me cuntry, how can you say more than i can imagine?

[divnswoop 0]

listen tex, "i done wurked at dz's frum coast-ta-coast, seen it all, well alot. from hawaii to maine and down to aruba. now tell me cuntry, how can you say more than i can imagine?

[SwampThing 0]

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tell me who i should be attacking!

According to Drop Zone Ethics - 101: NOBODY.

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

[CSpenceFLY 1]

.

[fireballgrl 0]

Does anyone know who JavaJunkie is? I am having a hard time getting her to respond to Pm's...

[mjosparky 3]

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Now how can they put this on their website when they are not even a drop zone themselves or USPA group member? And up until April 1st, they claimed to be “closed” for the winter when they have never even flown a load until April 1st. How’s that??

Jeffery,

You need to get out more often. People sometimes do things that are not exactly on the up and up. Believe me, its true.

Your web site is really funny.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[jumper410 0]

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Jeffery,

You need to get out more often. People sometimes do things that are not exactly on the up and up. Believe me, its true.

Your web site is really funny.

uh, ok, i guess since this is in reply to jumper410 that you are addressing me, now then, who the hell is Jeffery? and thanks for the big tip, i just now had an epiphany about people thanks to your comments.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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Does anyone know who JavaJunkie is? I am having a hard time getting her to respond to Pm's...

Why don't you post what you have to say here?

.

[fireballgrl 0]

I was asking who she was and where she learned/came from... finally got a pm (3 days and two messages later) I think posting here helped

[jumper410 0]

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I REALLY thought this nonsense was finally over, but guess I WAS WRONG!!

Good to see the spies are already out taking snapshots of the new dz! Jumper410, why don't you contact the NSA and see if they can reposition one of their national reconnaissance satellites over Harrisonville, MO so you can maintain round the clock surveillance of the new dz and then publish the pics here on a weekly basis

Well Mr. Dave since you decided to go over the top here for some reason, I will tell you my thoughts on this matter you suggested here:

Why don't you contact the NSA there Mr. Daaaave being that they probably still remember you from when you balled up that there '16 a while back in Kansas. http://www.f-16.net/f-16_fighting_falcon_airframe-1597.html http://groups.google.com/group/sci.military/browse_thread/thread/c9143e72cd737178/a6d36a040c799864?lnk=st&q=dave+ternes+%2B+crash&rnum=1&hl=en#a6d36a040c799864

Did you have to pay for just the aircraft or the aircraft and the farmhouse?

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Some of us have jobs and lives and can't make it out there every weekend

Does that mean you're still paying off that there airplane?

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but we would appreciate the frequent updates on the facilities that you have such an interest in.

When is putting back up a tent that blew down in a wind storm the day before a change in facilities? Or is it when they suck out the dirty water in the porta-potties and replace it with fresh blue water, is that a change in facilities that you think I should be interested in? Maybe it's when they drag the suedo manifest shed around the property to alleviate the county's zoning requirements of commercial use. Is this a change in faculties you think I should be interested in?

No, no, Dave, I just happened to be out flying in my aircraft (not sponsored by the Kansas Air National Guard or the US taxpayers) to a public use airport and happened upon all of these items of discussion. I found myself to be somewhat confused from the description on KC Skydiving Center's website compared to what was there and thought maybe I landed at the wrong location. I didn't know Harrisonville was hosting an antique RV park.

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I made four fabulous jumps out there this past weekend and had a blast with everybody.

Since you seem so excited about the fabulous jumps you made there, why don’t you do the surveillance instead and let us know when they resemble what was previously and currently being advertised?

[HippieCain 0]

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Good to see the spies are already out taking snapshots of the new dz!

Just to be fair, these pictures were posted in the thread about KCSC's opening day boogie, and I believe they were posted by the Eriksmoens. Just to clarify - no spies.

Fuck The Details

[Spdoat 0]

Honestly this is rediculous and immature... The amusement of this thread has long worn off and now it is just pathetic. Everyone can do a search engine to dig up shit.

I love my husband!

[darnknit 0]

holy cow, Don, you just love the shit out of this sport, dontcha?

i'm upping the number of cases of beer going to KCSC in your name to two cases! and i will make sure it's the good stuff(green bottles).

i only do this because of the love and support for skydiving and skydivers that you have so publicly demonstrated. please, stop being so likable, i'll go bankrupt at the pace you're making friends.


blue stuff,
p.j.

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[jumper410 0]

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If you can't imagine a DZO without an "I" rating running a decent DZ then.......wait, I think you have said enough in the threads for people to get an ideal of who you are......

You’re right, people can tell all about what kind of person I am based on this thread.

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keep on hating

Who do you think I hate? I don’t recall one place I have said one bad thing about the Eriksmones. I do not know them. I know who they are because I saw them and heard them speak at the city council meeting.

The topic is and was drop zone ethics. How is it that some people find it hateful for the two other competing DZ’s to be dis-satisfied with a new DZ coming in to town making claims they don’t come anywhere near meeting? Is this ethical? Is it fair to the DZ’s that do provide what they promise? Is it hateful for the other DZO’s to bring up valid points for the city council members to consider about having a DZ on their property? Shouldn’t the playing field be even for all the DZ’s? Even if the Eriksmones are great people, does it look like this thing was well planned or resemble any forethought at all? These are the questions that need to be answered here.

[Spdoat 0]

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*** These are the questions that need to be answered here.

Why? Shouldn't we analyze all the local dz's "promises." I still haven't seen the answer to what Butler's defination of "serious" is as JavaJunkie asked earlier.

I love my husband!

[airtwardo 6]

The only thing I got out of your whole post, is that 'Flyboy6554' is a Silkworm.....COOL!


What are you REALLY so upset about?

You started a thread to whine about 'false advertising'...
To which the overwhelming response was 'So What, Who Cares'



Now you attempt to belittle those not wanting to fall into step with you.




We have an Ex Lawn Dart Jockey who's now an Airline Pilot that actually jumped there and had fun, getting a thinly veiled PA from a 'part-time' employee at a competing DZ who flew in there 'in his own personal aircraft' and didn't like the tent!


Any credibility you may have had on this matter is gone...this thread is trashed.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~