Tandem 3- minor problems

[MrFreefall383 0]

To start out with, my instructor cleared me for my IAF 4, which means these problems weren't bad enough that I needed to repeat Tandem jumping to fix them.

The first problem I had was in arching. For whatever reason, I'm still not arching enough on exit with tandem gear. PRTs went fine, then freefall became unstable. Again, I wasn't arching enough. I kept seeing a finger pointed down from my instructor after every maneuver, and I kept trying to arch, but it constantly felt like I was fighting to arch more. Arm turns were kind of crappy since I wasn't stable to begin with, forward motion really didn't work all that well either, and then I had trouble finding the ripcord for the main, and my instructor had to pull. At that point I'm thinking to myself, "What more can go wrong?" Luckily, nothing did, canopy control and landing were fine, but it was a slightly hair-raising freefall. Any suggestions on how to improve these areas?

"If at first you don't succeed... well, so much for skydiving." - aviation cliche

[skybum1 0]

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To start out with, my instructor cleared me for my IAF 4, which means these problems weren't bad enough that I needed to repeat Tandem jumping to fix them.

The first problem I had was in arching. For whatever reason, I'm still not arching enough on exit with tandem gear. PRTs went fine, then freefall became unstable. Again, I wasn't arching enough. I kept seeing a finger pointed down from my instructor after every maneuver, and I kept trying to arch, but it constantly felt like I was fighting to arch more. Arm turns were kind of crappy since I wasn't stable to begin with, forward motion really didn't work all that well either, and then I had trouble finding the ripcord for the main, and my instructor had to pull. At that point I'm thinking to myself, "What more can go wrong?" Luckily, nothing did, canopy control and landing were fine, but it was a slightly hair-raising freefall. Any suggestions on how to improve these areas?

Did you have video to see where you were having problems with your arch?

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

IMO, if you did not pull on level III you should be repeating the jump anyways. The one thing you NEED to do on every skydive is pull. You did not complete the most important task on the jump, so you should not be moving to IAF. Relax and it will come to you, but I think you should talk to your instructors aabout repeating level III. If you do another level III and do it well, you will be more relaxed when you do your IAF.

[NickDG 23]

Stop doing tandems . . .

I'm not being flippent - If you want to learn to skydive then go skydive with experienced AFF Instructors who can solve most of your issues before they happen. You'll still have some difficulty, of course, but at least it will be a related to what you are trying to achieve.

NickD BASE 194

[MrFreefall383 0]

As for video, no, I don't get video. Too fucking expensive for me, no matter how good it might be for me. What I do know is that my TI wrote, "arch more at the pelvis", and that was his sole recommendation, just to relax and let my body arch naturally.

As for the second reply, I do see your point. The detail that I think needs to be addressed here is that I did end up finding the ripcord, just not in time to pull myself. The TI pulled half a second after he realized I hadn't pulled it myself, so we were at about 5.3k when the chute fully deployed. If he had left it alone, I would've had it deployed most likely by 5k, it just took me a second to find it. Again, not as if I wouldn't have pulled it, I just would've pulled it late.

My only assumption here is that when I jump my own gear, the ripcord will always be in the same place, unlike and unstable tandem freefall where the ripcord is bouncing around with the instability. That could also be the reason my TI cleared me for IAF 4, and didn't make anything of it. When I asked him he said, "Your hand was there, I just didn't want to wait any longer."

"If at first you don't succeed... well, so much for skydiving." - aviation cliche

[nbblood 0]

I can relate. When I started skydiving, my mental picture of an arch was to arch with my chest. I strained to arch harder but was really just making things worse. I finally realized that the arch is with your hips. The more you relax, the more you can arch. Try just standing and let your hips go forward and head back, then relax more and see how it allows your hips to move farther forward.

I'm not saying that this is definitely your issue, but it may help you visualize a good relaxed arch.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[NWFlyer 2]

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As for video, no, I don't get video. Too fucking expensive for me, no matter how good it might be for me. What I do know is that my TI wrote, "arch more at the pelvis", and that was his sole recommendation, just to relax and let my body arch naturally.

Bear in mind that you may end up paying more in repeat jumps than you will in video. If you find yourself with a chronic problem, video is often the best way to learn how to correct it.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[MrFreefall383 0]

That's part of the problem too. This is not a "chronic" problem. I had no problems in either of my first two jumps with stability, and didn't have any other major problems outside of the stability factor.

There is one possibility I haven't really considered, especially since I've considered this an almost random occurrence. I worked out heavily yesterday, which does tend to make my muscles a little stiffer than normal. Could something of that nature lead to an inability to arch properly?

"If at first you don't succeed... well, so much for skydiving." - aviation cliche

[NWFlyer 2]

Talk to your instructors. Work on your arch on the ground, with a student rig on. Chances are it's not a big deal, but your instructors can assess you much better than a bunch of folks on the internet.

This problem can probably be corrected pretty easily; I was just suggesting that *if* something becomes a chronic thing, you may end up spending less overall if you spring for video. Doesn't sound like you're at that point yet.

It's easy to be short-sighted in our very expensive sport - we skimp on video or coaching that could solve a problem or help us learn something new in one or two jumps, and instead work on it for many many jumps on our own. Costs a lot more in the long run.

[MrFreefall383 0]

I definitely see your point. I will consider video if I continue to have this problem, but right now it looks as though this was just a fluke. I'll be doing my ground school for 6 hours starting Saturday morning, then if the weather's holding out, I'll do my IAF 4. At that point, we'll see what happens. If I'm still having stability issues, I'll consider video.

"If at first you don't succeed... well, so much for skydiving." - aviation cliche

[NWFlyer 2]

Glad to help. This would probably be a good time to point out that you are probably not going to be a perfect student. Not a knock on you, just a fact. Chances are, also, that you'll be able to work through stuff pretty easily. If not, you might need to be stubborn like me.

I point it out for two reasons: 1) Don't beat yourself up or worry too much not getting something right the first time. Your instructors are going to take you through a well-designed course, and they're not going to let you move on till you demonstrate that you "got" something to their satisfaction. It can be frustrating, but most of us find the frustration worth it. 2) If you have budgeted only for a "perfect" student progression, you may wish to reassess your budget. You may not need it, but just assume that your student progression will cost more than you think.

Hell, just assume skydiving will cost more than you think. Get ready to just sign your paychecks over to manifest.

[velvetjo 0]

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My only assumption here is that when I jump my own gear, the ripcord will always be in the same place, unlike and unstable tandem freefall where the ripcord is bouncing around with the instability.

Not true. Each of your handles can shift for a variety of reasons, and you need to know how to deal with this effectively. Talk to your instructors about how to do this (including how long / how many times to try) if they haven't told you already.

It's tempting to pick apart a jump in retrospect, but don't get too bogged down in the past. Discuss areas that need improvement with your instructors, since they know you best. I agree with the other posts that suggest video if you're not fully understanding feedback from your instructors. It will show you exactly what they mean. The other thing to remember is that our perceptions are often different from reality, so video is a great way to get another perspective on the problem.

Relax, stay safe, and have fun on your jumps.
Lance

[Trae 1]

in reply to "To start out with, my instructor cleared me for my IAF 4, which means these problems weren't bad enough that I needed to repeat Tandem jumping to fix them. "
.........................

Sounds like a good call.

Sometimes having some-one strapped to your back with two big canopies on theirs and dragging a largish drogue behind can kinda make learning to skydive a bit troublesome. ...sometimes not so much.

You sound ready to try AFF to me , hell why not even give the static line course a go..... and forget the bit about being a troublesome student.

Sometimes in tandem instuction the instructor just can't help but be part of any problem. Don't take total blame for what may be a tandem induced training incident/difficulty..... I find it hard to arch with a 90kg monkey on my back as well.

With decent AFF or static-line training you'll find freefall and parachuting a whole new experience to your extended tandem introduction course.

[MrFreefall383 0]

Thanks for all the advice. I appreciate it. Truth is, I'm not that worried about the fact that I was unstable, because I've basically told myself that I was simply fighting physics too much. I've always been a student of airborne physics, essentially since I was 3 years old, I just never thought I'd find myself disobeying physics and finding myself in an unstable freefall.

I'm just going to practice arching properly using whatever means I can before Saturday, at which point I'll go through the "Jump Course", which is where all the solo gear jump knowledge will come into play, and I'll jump after that bearing in mind all that I learned from the last time.

As for AFF and S/L, I've already surpassed the "tandem" part of Tandem Progression, I might as well just stick with what I'm doing. It's working so far. I'm just going to keep making it work.

"If at first you don't succeed... well, so much for skydiving." - aviation cliche