Dollars per pound

[divnswoop 0]

You should be a Tandem Examiner!

[jtval 0]

whats your deal ?

Just about everything I have said here you have agreed with in a different post?

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[Ron 7]

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No she isn't a TI....BUT she isn't on her claiming she is and handing out advice.

I was asking so I could see if they knew about the extra risk to the TI. It is pretty clear to me that a bigger passenger is a bigger risk to the TI, but I am a TI, so I have some insite. I was asking if they had that same exp, or how they gained their view.

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She doesn't think the student should pay extra for extra student risk. I agree

I agree as well...If there is extra risk to the student...I don't take them. But I am pretty famous for not taking out of shape fat bodies since I don't have to accept that extra risk. And there is an extra risk to heavier students....

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I didn't get paid extra for the jump and I believe they were a little more at risk on landing than somebody that was 150 lbs. So while I agree that 250lb tandem can cause additional issues and even risk for the I....The extra charge isn't because of the additional liability to the dz of taking the student.

I know a DZM that would disagree with you. They tracked all maner of injuries at the DZ and found that out of ALL student injuries, more than half were from people over a certain weight, (I think 220).

They flat out refused to take anyone over that weight AFF or Tandem and from the 200 + to that rate charged more. It was seen as an acceptable risk range depending on the fitness level.

This from a DZ that made me fill out a form when I had a reserve ride there. They really do track that stuff.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Reginald 0]

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This from a DZ that made me fill out a form when I had a reserve ride there. They really do track that stuff.

Damn it Ron. Skydiving is all about the paperwork!

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[Ron 7]

You out this weekend? I am jumping OC with Antons group till Rick gets there....Then coaching and maybe an AFF or two.

Also, the red head may not be coming out...so we can do something after day close maybe....I'd ask ya to jump, but I don't wanna be cruel.....








Wanna make a jump....Ok I'm cruel.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kelpdiver 2]

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I attached a picture.. I don't know if that helps at all.

Don't show up looking like that!

[piisfish 135]

heavier means more effort on the body of the TM too. Extra money goes directly to the chiropractor/osteopath/massage

The more you pay the more extras he can get for the massage

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[labrys 0]

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Okay now really slowly...

Do you think a TI landing a 220lb person has a higher risk of injuring his (the TI's) ankle as compared to a landing a 140lb person? Yes or no?

Okay...now really slowly back at ya:

Yes, I agree that there is increased risk of the instructor being injured. I've never argued that or asked for explanation. If you think it's funny to mock my question at least address the issue I was asking about.

I don't get charging the student extra money when they are heavy because there is extra risk. All kinds of tandems involve extra risk. Why just charge the heavy ones?

Owned by Remi #?

[mjosparky 3]

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I don't know as much about skydiving as a lot of you.

You are right.

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I don't really think that I would be more of a burden on the instructor, given my physical status.

Thats just the thing that makes you more of a burden.

The picture looks like a Chia Pet with a Bud.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[divnswoop 0]

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I know a DZM that would disagree with you. They tracked all maner of injuries at the DZ and found that out of ALL student injuries, more than half were from people over a certain weight, (I think 220).

They flat out refused to take anyone over that weight AFF or Tandem and from the 200 + to that rate charged more. It was seen as an acceptable risk range depending on the fitness level.

So they charged AFF students that were over 200 extra? That money goes straight to the DZ? My bad, I haven't heard of that approach with AFF. What about 200+ tandems? Did extra money go to the TI or did it go to the DZ? Personally, if I knew the DZ was charging extra for weight over 200 lbs, I would make sure I was getting at least 50% of that. (for my extra risk)

My limitations on heavy/ overweight people have came down the past 3 years. Too many were just unhappy about the jump because they were so uncomfortable. Having a 240lb person standing on your feet for 4-5 min was just getting old. Luckly, none of my couple thousand tandems have been hurt and I hope to keep it that way! (Well, i did have a woman break a nail cause she was holding her harness too tight. you would have though she broke an ankle the way she was whining under the parachute though)

[Ron 7]

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I don't get charging the student extra money when they are heavy because there is extra risk. All kinds of tandems involve extra risk. Why just charge the heavy ones?

Because there is MORE risk for a heavier a person. And their seems to be a sharp spike at around 200ish pounds.

Like I said before, I can stand up a landing with a 100 pounder on the front of me and almost ignore them. But with a 240 pounder (My biggest) it took tons of work and there was increased danger to me. The 240 pounder in this case was not in more danger since he was a big meaty football player, but there was risk to me. Now a flab factory both increases risk to the TI, AND them. And for that reason, I don't take grossly over weight people. It is not worth it to me to risk my ankle, or for me to risk getting sued for them breaking theirs...If people want to tak that risk, I have no problem them getting more money for it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[OnYourBack 0]

"Because there is MORE risk for a heavier a person. And their seems to be a sharp spike at around 200ish pounds. "

I agree. Especially on a hot day with no wind. Being our smallest TI I can take a significantly larger passenger than the others. Getting a 260lb person out the door of a 182 is physically challenging (even worse if they are a foot taller than me), managing them under canopy is more difficult, and landing them softly has a much smaller margin for error than a smaller passenger. With a 100lb girl I'm WL at .8. With 260lb I'm at 1.3.

[notaccountable 0]

I would agree with it taking more work. The risk is close to the same as taking that 100 girl that is too flexible for her own good. Gotta love those first jump sit flyers.

It is more work with gearing up (especially if over weight), more work hooking up in the plane (less room), less work in freefall for the most part, unless they are 6'10" with a huge wingspan; more wear and tear on the TI's body at opening, and more work on landing.

The lighter person is easier to hook up, more of a pain in freefall, and back in the day when you needed help flaring; was almost useless with lack of strength, but now days doesn't play that much of a factor.

The extra pay for over 200 partially came from TI's upset because they make the same money on the 150 lb person as they would on the 240 lb person with causing more work due to weight and size. The DZO isn't going to absorb the cost, so it's passed onto the student, and rightly so, it's more work dealing with a larger person. It's a motivatar for the TI to step up and do more work. I just don't see the "more risk", as a deciding factor on more pay. Ok, I'll give you 10 dollar to jump off a cliff without a rig, fine 20, 30? Not to make light of the inherent risk factor of being a TI to begin with, but I don't see that as being the determining factor.

The lighter person doesn't get a discount, because that's where the standard price rate was derived from. Why it's 200?, well it's an easy round number and it's in the ball park of increasing work load. It's not a magical number at which there is some major shift. If it were at 190, then people at 195 would post the same greivance; or at 210 the 205er's would be fine. Sometimes it is what it is.

If it were a risk issue, then it would seem the TI would be paid more as the day goes on, because of the fatigue on the body from doing tandems all day CAN increase the risk factor as well as other scenarios.

I do agree that an over weight out of shape person has a greater risk of being injured on tandems. Many stats are out there to validate that one. From a legal standpoint this COULD increase the risk of liability to the TI even though they sign a waiver.

The old rule of thumb was if the student could jump off of the tailgate of a truck without incident, then they would be good to go (provided they were under the TSO'd combined weight limit). It doesn't seem to be the case as much today.

(DYING TO LEARN OR LEARNING TO DIE, JUST A THOUGHT)

[pan 0]

my two cents. Our reserves are rated for 500 lbs. that is TI/ passanger and gear. And yes i have maxed that out. We do not charge extra for weight but god do i wish we did. What is the differance. Both my shoulders are in almost constant pain. I have 1000+ tandems in about 13 months. The extra weight just makes our job hard. Flaring for landing, we are basically doing a 500 pound chin-up. And yes out of shape is way different from some one who works out.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Flaring for landing, we are basically doing a 500 pound chin-up. And yes out of shape is way different from some one who works out.

it's still the same chin up. Is that the concern, or their coordination on landing?