pilatus_p 0 #1 October 8, 2006 Im just wondering - how much usually goes wrong on student courses? My AFF was pretty educational in terms of 'bad stuff'. Is this quite a lot to have happen on a first AFF course?: 1) Hard opening which fractured my spine 2) Downwind landing after wind direction change with spot-on PLF 3) Jumping in a lightning storm 4) Line twists which started to dive the canopy (kicked them out just as it went over) On the basis of having all this in only 8 freefall jumps, does this mean I'm good for my next 1000 with no upsets? Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zing 2 #2 October 8, 2006 Nope, your chances of bouncing on the next jump remain the same.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyinseivLP2 0 #3 October 8, 2006 Have you evaluated the safety of the DZ? Most of the things that happened to you possibly could have been prevented by instuctors and or staff members. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #4 October 9, 2006 QuoteNope, your chances of bouncing on the next jump remain the same. BOING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
recovercrachead 0 #5 October 9, 2006 Splat! Start jumping at the ranch so I could put $10 on you. Its like inside information on a investment.Track high, Pull LOW!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #6 October 9, 2006 Wow, that's pretty intense! Yea, I would check with the DZ about safety stuff... ...From what I hear, hard openings do happen, but usually not on student gear. And line twists that make the canopy dive on student gear seems a tad strange, I've had mine spin up 8 times (2,880 degrees) and the canopy still flew straight. But what really scares me is the jumping in a lightning storm...usually DZ's put holds on a load if its bad weather... But things do happen. I still get hard openings, line twists occasionally, and the rule at our DZ is to follow the first one down, so there have been a few down-wind landings with that. Good luck on your jumps! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #7 October 9, 2006 QuoteFrom what I hear, hard openings do happen, but usually not on student gear. Hard openings can happen on any canopy, any gear at any time. No matter how well designed the gear/canopy is and no matter how well it is maintainted and no matter how well it is packed. Hard openings can happen. Think about it. You're taking nearly 20' of lines, many of them as well as around 200sq ft of fabric and tossing it into the wind at 120+mph. Things happen. Now add to the fact that the canopy may be a bit out of trim and packed by a packer in a hurry...well, things happen. I've seen instant canopies that hurt people with a Spectre (which is widely regarded as a super soft opening canopy) and I've seen long perfect snivels with a Sabre1. Any canopy and any gear can give you a brutally hard opening at any time.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #8 October 9, 2006 Yea, true that. In fact, I've seen what not un-collapsing your slider does too! BAM. Insta-canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Biglee 0 #9 October 9, 2006 Hi everyone reading this is making me a bit worries as I am doing my AFF next year. Ross said 1) Hard opening which fractured my spine, Are hard openings really that bad? Blue skies Lee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilatus_p 0 #10 October 9, 2006 And I thought I was beginning to like you guys ... Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilatus_p 0 #11 October 9, 2006 Hi Lee I think I am just the unluckiest fu*ker in the world. No one else had a hard opening and it was brand new gear (well apart from a weeks worth of jumps). Where are you doing your AFF? Ask them about their ethics on packing and safety, and see what 'feeling' you come away with after you ask the question. I did this, ignored the feeling (the guy got angry at me on the phone for daring to ask if his packers were qualified) and went there anyway - and regretted it (which incidentally is NOT my listed home DZ) A hard opening is basically decelerating too quickly. You go from flat to earth, through upright, and probably onto your back (if its quick enough) whilst at the same time your body is slowing from 120 mph to 10. How quickly this happens is key, but a hard opening will be between 1-2 seconds. Mine took just around a second, which is some big g-force to put through your spine. Skydiving is dangerous and Sh*t happens - its just one of those things you have to accept if you are going into the sport. But jumping with a good safe DZ is a good start! Litle white fluffy ones Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilatus_p 0 #12 October 9, 2006 Hi ello Yes the dive put the collie wobbles up me. I had about 6 or 7 twists, and just as the last two were coming out the canopy decided to see what was below it. As the last two came out I swung back under it. Quite a buzz. I wont be jumping at that DZ again after these comments! Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mangledspoon 0 #13 October 9, 2006 To me that sounds like bad luck - and the jumping in a lightning storm sounds like your DZ being unsafe... hmm... I think line twists are fairly common on your first few jumps though, due to the fact students are sometimes spinners or don't have the best body position during opening... Downwind landings can be prevented if possible by making sure you watch the windsock / other jumpers land / direction of any smoke / feel of the wind... but it's good that you did a good PLF. Anyway I'm still a newbie myself and can't say too much... but I've had line twists and a downwind landing myself (my own fault) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Biglee 0 #14 October 9, 2006 Hi Ross I am most likely going to do my AFF at Langar in the UK. I have been talking to a few people who goes there to jump, been told that everyone there is professional and all packers are qualified and that safety is top. I know that the sport is dangerous and I except that, but just can’t help but think when I see a new incident been posted here. I’m sure that most of the incident are human error and can be avoided and others is mother nature they happen whenever just got to deal with them. Blue skies Lee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kkeenan 13 #15 October 9, 2006 Quote 1) Hard opening which fractured my spine 2) Downwind landing after wind direction change with spot-on PLF 3) Jumping in a lightning storm 4) Line twists which started to dive the canopy (kicked them out just as it went over) Hey, you got into this sport for some thrills, right ?? Other than that painful hard opening, it sounds like you're getting your money's worth. Look at it this way, you've got twice as many good jump stories as the people you trained with. Some folks wait a hundred jumps to have cool shit like this happen. Kevin_____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #16 October 9, 2006 Quote ...From what I hear, hard openings do happen, but usually not on student gear. every opening I had on the pd300/265 felt like a hard opening to me. This was no 800' sniveling arrangement, either by the parachute design or the packing method. What made it hard was the not well fitting eclipse. I had weekly bruisings on my biceps, sometimes thighs as well. Only took a couple of those openings to feel done for the day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #17 October 9, 2006 Yea, I really didn't have all that many hard ones on student gear. I'd occasionally pitch in a track which would hurt a lil bit, lol. I used to get bruises on my legs and stuff even from soft openings. But once I got a custom fit harness, evenif its a hard opening, it doesn't leave one bruise! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilatus_p 0 #18 October 9, 2006 QuoteLook at it this way, you've got twice as many good jump stories as the people you trained with. Some folks wait a hundred jumps to have cool shit like this happen. I keep trying to capture the still from my AFF vid where you can see a bolt of lightining go across the screen in the background. Bloody VOB files ... I'm looking into finishing my AFF and consols in December, so look out on Skydiving movies for a 'first cutaway', 'roof landing' and 'AAD misfire two out downplane' videos from me. Once those first three jumps are over, I will put the video from the other jumps up too.... Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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AggieDave 6 #7 October 9, 2006 QuoteFrom what I hear, hard openings do happen, but usually not on student gear. Hard openings can happen on any canopy, any gear at any time. No matter how well designed the gear/canopy is and no matter how well it is maintainted and no matter how well it is packed. Hard openings can happen. Think about it. You're taking nearly 20' of lines, many of them as well as around 200sq ft of fabric and tossing it into the wind at 120+mph. Things happen. Now add to the fact that the canopy may be a bit out of trim and packed by a packer in a hurry...well, things happen. I've seen instant canopies that hurt people with a Spectre (which is widely regarded as a super soft opening canopy) and I've seen long perfect snivels with a Sabre1. Any canopy and any gear can give you a brutally hard opening at any time.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #8 October 9, 2006 Yea, true that. In fact, I've seen what not un-collapsing your slider does too! BAM. Insta-canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Biglee 0 #9 October 9, 2006 Hi everyone reading this is making me a bit worries as I am doing my AFF next year. Ross said 1) Hard opening which fractured my spine, Are hard openings really that bad? Blue skies Lee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilatus_p 0 #10 October 9, 2006 And I thought I was beginning to like you guys ... Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilatus_p 0 #11 October 9, 2006 Hi Lee I think I am just the unluckiest fu*ker in the world. No one else had a hard opening and it was brand new gear (well apart from a weeks worth of jumps). Where are you doing your AFF? Ask them about their ethics on packing and safety, and see what 'feeling' you come away with after you ask the question. I did this, ignored the feeling (the guy got angry at me on the phone for daring to ask if his packers were qualified) and went there anyway - and regretted it (which incidentally is NOT my listed home DZ) A hard opening is basically decelerating too quickly. You go from flat to earth, through upright, and probably onto your back (if its quick enough) whilst at the same time your body is slowing from 120 mph to 10. How quickly this happens is key, but a hard opening will be between 1-2 seconds. Mine took just around a second, which is some big g-force to put through your spine. Skydiving is dangerous and Sh*t happens - its just one of those things you have to accept if you are going into the sport. But jumping with a good safe DZ is a good start! Litle white fluffy ones Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilatus_p 0 #12 October 9, 2006 Hi ello Yes the dive put the collie wobbles up me. I had about 6 or 7 twists, and just as the last two were coming out the canopy decided to see what was below it. As the last two came out I swung back under it. Quite a buzz. I wont be jumping at that DZ again after these comments! Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mangledspoon 0 #13 October 9, 2006 To me that sounds like bad luck - and the jumping in a lightning storm sounds like your DZ being unsafe... hmm... I think line twists are fairly common on your first few jumps though, due to the fact students are sometimes spinners or don't have the best body position during opening... Downwind landings can be prevented if possible by making sure you watch the windsock / other jumpers land / direction of any smoke / feel of the wind... but it's good that you did a good PLF. Anyway I'm still a newbie myself and can't say too much... but I've had line twists and a downwind landing myself (my own fault) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Biglee 0 #14 October 9, 2006 Hi Ross I am most likely going to do my AFF at Langar in the UK. I have been talking to a few people who goes there to jump, been told that everyone there is professional and all packers are qualified and that safety is top. I know that the sport is dangerous and I except that, but just can’t help but think when I see a new incident been posted here. I’m sure that most of the incident are human error and can be avoided and others is mother nature they happen whenever just got to deal with them. Blue skies Lee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #15 October 9, 2006 Quote 1) Hard opening which fractured my spine 2) Downwind landing after wind direction change with spot-on PLF 3) Jumping in a lightning storm 4) Line twists which started to dive the canopy (kicked them out just as it went over) Hey, you got into this sport for some thrills, right ?? Other than that painful hard opening, it sounds like you're getting your money's worth. Look at it this way, you've got twice as many good jump stories as the people you trained with. Some folks wait a hundred jumps to have cool shit like this happen. Kevin_____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #16 October 9, 2006 Quote ...From what I hear, hard openings do happen, but usually not on student gear. every opening I had on the pd300/265 felt like a hard opening to me. This was no 800' sniveling arrangement, either by the parachute design or the packing method. What made it hard was the not well fitting eclipse. I had weekly bruisings on my biceps, sometimes thighs as well. Only took a couple of those openings to feel done for the day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #17 October 9, 2006 Yea, I really didn't have all that many hard ones on student gear. I'd occasionally pitch in a track which would hurt a lil bit, lol. I used to get bruises on my legs and stuff even from soft openings. But once I got a custom fit harness, evenif its a hard opening, it doesn't leave one bruise! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilatus_p 0 #18 October 9, 2006 QuoteLook at it this way, you've got twice as many good jump stories as the people you trained with. Some folks wait a hundred jumps to have cool shit like this happen. I keep trying to capture the still from my AFF vid where you can see a bolt of lightining go across the screen in the background. Bloody VOB files ... I'm looking into finishing my AFF and consols in December, so look out on Skydiving movies for a 'first cutaway', 'roof landing' and 'AAD misfire two out downplane' videos from me. Once those first three jumps are over, I will put the video from the other jumps up too.... Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
