Dead man Walking

[mikewdiggler 0]

Hi all,

Jumping this weekend at a UK DZ and theres this guy at the DZ who allready i have nick named him DMW (look at the title) he passed his AFF not much longer ago than me ( i passed in jan) now i know i have low jump numbers had my 66th this weekend but this guy is really pissing me off. I am one of those who wants to do all the progression by the book, safety concious etc etc and i know that you can be the safest person in the world and still hurt yourself and others but this guy just seems to float all the rules and regs that are set out to protect us. Well i know for a fact he hasnt done his WARP, he hasnt got his B License and am sure he has around 60 jumps but on more than 1 occasion i have seen him on a jump with other skydivers of the same experience as him and what really got me going this weekend was that he went round everyone on the load asking if they wanted to do a jump with him, nobody did and he said he was doing a tracking dive but after he decided to do this tracking dive he was asking the jumpmaster question after question about which way he would be tracking, he even admitted he was unsure of which way to track. The jumpmaster finally said well if you dont know then dont track, to which he probably tracked anyway (although cant confirm). I wasnt the only 1 of the load that felt rather uneasy and was happy to be one of the first leaving the plane as i had visions of him tracking up and down jump run and smacking straight into either me or someone else.

Its one thing jumping with someone with 1000's who has offered to jump with a low exp jumper as they are much more aware of what is going on around them and its another jumping with people who have low jump numbers and your doing 4 way exits with no official training its a danger to himself, other jumpers and also the DZ as they would possibly be held responsible if this guys kills himself and someones else as they should be checking the currency and also the experience level of each and every jumper that is scheduled on a load

Sorry for the long post but i need to vent my anger!!

Santa Claus cum down my chimney and emptied his sack on my tree!

[phoenixlpr 0]

I see, whining here solves everything.

[mikewdiggler 0]

No it doesnt solve anything at all, it just pisses me off when you go jumping to have fun and be with your mates. Skydiving is a sport which can hurt you, we dont need anyone adding to the increased risk that is blatantly jumping out of his experince level and putting needless lifes in my opinion in danger. Tried to speak to him about it but was met with a "who the fuck are you!" Now i am not the type to go crying to the CCI or the S&TA i think its only a matter of time before he hurts someone or himself.
I am going to make sure i am on none of the loads he gets on!

Santa Claus cum down my chimney and emptied his sack on my tree!

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Tried to speak to him about it but was met with a "who the fuck are you!" Now i am not the type to go crying to the CCI or the S&TA i think its only a matter of time before he hurts someone or himself.

You should be that type talking to the S&TA. If you have a local problem you should solve locally. He should be receive some education if he is really lack of.

[mikewdiggler 0]

maybe you are right and i do need to speak to the S&TA as it isnt just myself that is piotentially in danger! I just get the feeling that Ratting someone out is kind of like the old "Im going to tell on you!" Kind of attitude, when i spoke to him at the weekend and got the basic "fuck you" reply i thought fair enough ive tried and i aint wasting any more time on you. I am definately going to mention it too the S&TA the next time i see him doing something which i think could cause a danger.

Santa Claus cum down my chimney and emptied his sack on my tree!

[phoenixlpr 0]

I'd rather have a discussion with the S&TA about those issues. He/she should be able to handle those.

Its a real problem if you are not able to discuss problems face to face.

I have seen this before: one man just skipped jumping because another was on the load who is considered dangerous by that jumper. It is just plain stupid.

[mikewdiggler 0]

I know what you mean, i dont want to skip loads that my friends are on just because there is some nobber on there that doesnt give 2 hoots about safety. I feel better after venting my anger and i am going to make a point of speaking to the S&TA at my DZ as why should myself and other jumpers who abide by the rules and regs be put in extra danger because of the lack of common sense and complete selfishness of another jumper!

Santa Claus cum down my chimney and emptied his sack on my tree!

[freekflyguy 0]

Mike

First off we dont have S&TS's in the UK just CCI who are in turn Adv Inst (sorry for being picky but I are one).

Second where were you jumping? My guess is if you are from Warrington its probably Black Knights or Tilstock but I could be mistaken (PM if you dont want to post the details).

The CCI's at both centres are top blokes and would be more than happy if you were to point this guy out to them. DZ can be busy places even in the UK on a winter weekend and they may not know what this guy is up too.

You really should let someone know, as I have said before in this forum:

Safety is not a dirty word.

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[yoink 321]

Is it possible that some of the other low number jumpers that you were referring to have their FS1? I had mine before I had 50 jumps which would have allowed me to jump with your DMW in that situation.

A Solo tracking dive isn't that much of a problem as long as he gets out (preferable last) and tracks off jump run. This is easy enough for the jumpmaster to explain on the plane ride to altitude...

Honestly dude, make sure you're not making a mountain out of a molehill - it's a small community and it's not worth annoying people by going apeshit at them when you're not 100% sure of absolutely everything.

You could do far worse than taking your concerns to the CCI - he'll be able to address them without giving you attitude.

[jakee 1,255]

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A Solo tracking dive isn't that much of a problem as long as he gets out (preferable last) and tracks off jump run. This is easy enough for the jumpmaster to explain on the plane ride to altitude...

I was thinking that myself. The guy only has 60 jumps, he's not expected to know everything. The fact that he's actively seeking info from the JM on where to go seems like a plus in my book? Did the JM explain tracking theory to him before telling him not to do it? Of course I wasn't there, so don't know what his general attitude and receptiveness to new info is.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andy9o8 0]

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The fact that he's actively seeking info from the JM on where to go seems like a plus in my book?

Maybe; or on the other hand, it may be evidence of his cluelessness. Plus, seeking info from the JM is fine; but it's much more safely done on the ground than on the plane. Jumps, even solo jumps, should be planned before boarding the plane.

[freekflyguy 0]

Here here, if a solo jumper was asking me the whys and wherefores of a tracking dive in the A/C I would tell him to do a regular flat flying solo and come have a chat with me on the ground.

Th A/C is not the place for any kind of brief.

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[mikewdiggler 0]

When the jumpmaster was telling him which way to track (away and at right angles to the jump run) now this is all well and good exept this guy then asks "Well how do i tell if its a right angle to the plane?" at this point the JM said well if you are unsure of where to track then do not track, think the JM corrected this guy 3 times and said you cant do that because you'll be over the other jumpers. What he was trying to acheive was to get back to the DZ as he would be last out and wanted to make sure he'd get back without having to land out. To be fair he did ask the JM whilst on the ground but in my opionion if you are unsure of what you have allready been told then alter the plan to accomodate what you do know until you become proficient enough, IE dont do a tracking dive if your asking silly questions and telling the JM of a plan which will in the end leave you over the path of other jumpers! Like i said i didnt know if he actually did the tracking dive but i sure wasnt comfortable not knowing about this guy, what his plans were. I dont think i am making mountains out of molehills i just beleive that this guy could screw his head on a bit tighter and consider the safety of others a bit more and actually take the time to find out from an experienced jumper before he gets on the jumpship with a plan for a dive that he isnt sure about!

Santa Claus cum down my chimney and emptied his sack on my tree!

[jakee 1,255]

OK, that does sound like he needs a lot more talking to on the ground. I still think its good that he's asking the questions, but very bad if he ignores the answers

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[shermanator 3]

hmmm, it almost sounds like you are overreacting on this one. He went to the JM, asking questions, because he didnt know.. how else is he going to find out and learn? After getting your license *any of them* does not mean that theya re full of all knowledge and ready to do anything and everything. I still do, as well as others with way more experience than me, talk to instructors to get advice on jumps, procedures, whatifs, ect. I'd rather jump with someone who has been asking all the silly questions than someone who asks no questions and just asumes they know it.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[Andy9o8 0]

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I'd rather jump with someone who has been asking all the silly questions than someone who asks no questions and just asumes they know it.

So would I. But if a person with about 60 jumps waits until the plane is flying to ask some pretty crucial questions of the JM, and still doesn't know how to determine heading vis-a-vis jump run, he needs some serious remedial coaching. Preferably starting on the ground.

Some time ago, I knew 2 DGW's. Number One was a student and Number Two was a guy who managed, very much despite himself, to survive to become an experienced jumper. Number One went and got himself killed on a jump before he was A-qualified. Ironically, on his fatal jump, his JM was Number Two. (True story.)

[damion75 0]

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I just get the feeling that Ratting someone out is kind of like the old "Im going to tell on you!" Kind of attitude

Without doubt, if you tried to speak to him and he wasn't having it, or even if you hadn't tried speaking to him because he won't listen... tell the CCI or whoever is running DZ Control.

It's not about ratting out, its about safety. And just making sure that you are not on the same lift as someone unsafe doesn't help the other people on the DZ who might also get hurt.

I mean this generically rather than for this specific case as I don't have enough detail here from both sides of the story to make my own judgement...

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Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.