For the cost of 39 cents you can help a DZ Wright a letter please

[Broke 0]

At the close of safety day there was some discussion regarding an issue that is on the docket at the town board. They want to prohibit intersecting departures. One of the reasions they said to prohibit this was to preserve the pine barrens in the event of an A/c emerency. At SDLI there is a 10k foot runway and we never use the full length of the runway. If there was an emergency just after take off we would touch down on the rest of the runway and not into the tree. This would cause us to have to use more fuel per load which means slower turn around time, and of course an increase to the cost of the jump ticket.
here is a sample form letter that as drawn up

Mail you letters by this friday 03/17/2007 to:

Phil Cardinale, Supivisor &
Town Board Members
200 Howell Avenue
Riverhead, NY 11901

Mr. Supervisor and Board Memebers

I am a regular customer of Skydive Long Island in Calverton. It has come to my attention that rules are being proposed to prohibit intersecting departures. If this is enforced it will add to the time it takes for every flight, resulting in long delays between jumps.

I only have limited time to pursue my love of skydiving. I enjoy coming out to Calverton jumping, enjoying local restraunts, and other attractions in the area. I may have to consider traveling to another skydiving center if the wait time is increased, and I cannot enjoy the number of jumps I would like to do on any given day. Not only will Skydive Long Island lose revenue, but the local gas stations, resturants, and attractions will also be affected by this.

Please consider allowing intersecting departures. I want to continue coming to your beautiful town, and enjoying all the local activities.

Thank you very much.

Sincerely,

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[pilotdave 0]

Is the AOPA aware of this? They generally do NOT like local governments changing the FAAs rules to suit their own needs. They might be able to help if they haven't been contacted yet.

How much runway do you have left (minimum) at the intersections you use?

Dave

[Broke 0]

Most of this info was given to us from the DZO, so I don't have all of the facts and figures. One runway is 7000 foot and nevr gets used the one that we use if 10000 feet. Still it hardly getsa used.

From what I gathered. He said he talked to a group, I didn't catch who it was, and they said they would tend to agree in prohibiting intersecting departures.

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

Quote

Most of this info was given to us from the DZO, so I don't have all of the facts and figures. One runway is 7000 foot and nevr gets used the one that we use if 10000 feet. Still it hardly getsa used.

From what I gathered. He said he talked to a group, I didn't catch who it was, and they said they would tend to agree in prohibiting intersecting departures.

But no one ever takes off from the 7,000ft runway. The only other traffic I ever see there is other skydivers landing there personal planes. I still don't get what the exact problem is.

For anyone who hasn't been to SDLI this is a picture of our layout from google maps:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=skydive+long+island&layer=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.953203,61.083984&ie=UTF8&z=14&ll=40.911826,-72.791977&spn=0.03827,0.059652&t=k&om=1

The 10,000ft runway is located on the right and SDLI itself is located half way down the runway. These runways use to belong to Grumman. They use to test fly the F-14's on this site.

_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[mark 102]

The correct phrase would be intersection departures, i.e. departures from where a taxiway intersects with a runway.

I don't think there is an FAA phrase "intersecting departure," which conjures up an exciting image of simultaneous take-offs on intersecting runways.

If you use the expected, standard terms, you're input is less likely to be downgraded or discarded.

Will they be prohibiting intersection departures for all traffic, or just for jump aircraft?

Mark

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

That is where I am confused. There are no other aircraft operating out of that airport. We have the airport pretty much to ourselves. The only time there are other aircraft is usually when a skydiver takes his own plan and lands there.

_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[kkeenan 13]

It's generally considered safe practice to start a takeoff at the end of the runway. In the event of a power loss after takeoff, a pilot has the chance to set down on the remaining runway rather than crashing into the trees. You, yourself may benefit from this one day. If this is up to the Town Board, I doubt that they will change the rules, feeling that it may leave them open to legal action.

There's an old saying that there's nothing more worthless than "runway behind you".

And, yes, the term "intersecting departures" sounds more like an accident description. "Intersection takeoff" is the correct term.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[pilotdave 0]

Taxiing an extra mile for each takeoff could cause problems too... I don't know what kind of plane they operate, but it could mean a lot of extra idling of the engine, which could be bad for a piston engine. Also could put extra wear and tear on the landing gear. I know of helicopters in Japan that ran into that problem operating out of an international airport. They were not allowed to take off from anywhere but the end of the runway, so they had to taxi for miles... which the landing gear was never designed to do. A plane is better suited to lots of taxiing, but it still could cause extra wear on the tires, wheels, and brakes.

More runway ahead is good, but requiring them to use all 10,000 feet is a little much. I did most of my flight training out of an airport with a 9,000 foot runway and never once taxied to the end of the runway. Every takeoff was from an intersection about half way down.

Towns make rules that contradict or alter the FARs all the time... and are often overruled by the FAA when someone like AOPA gets involved.

Dave

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

Quote

Taxiing an extra mile for each takeoff could cause problems too... I don't know what kind of plane they operate, but it could mean a lot of extra idling of the engine, which could be bad for a piston engine. Also could put extra wear and tear on the landing gear. I know of helicopters in Japan that ran into that problem operating out of an international airport. They were not allowed to take off from anywhere but the end of the runway, so they had to taxi for miles... which the landing gear was never designed to do. A plane is better suited to lots of taxiing, but it still could cause extra wear on the tires, wheels, and brakes.

More runway ahead is good, but requiring them to use all 10,000 feet is a little much. I did most of my flight training out of an airport with a 9,000 foot runway and never once taxied to the end of the runway. Every takeoff was from an intersection about half way down.

Towns make rules that contradict or alter the FARs all the time... and are often overruled by the FAA when someone like AOPA gets involved.

Dave

Our normal aircraft is a Caravan and this year we should see an addition of a King Air.

_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[Programmer 0]

I'm not clear on the whole "save the pine barrens" thing. Have you had a rash of airplanes crashing off the end of the runway? The last incident I found for Calverton in the NTSB database was a close encounter of the pilot not looking out the window kind at 13,000 feet over Calverton in 1986.

[Broke 0]

From what i understand that was one of the reasons given to enact these rules. Of course the person writing the rules for the town to adopt is a helo pilot. Also keep in mind that most of the information was given to me second hand.

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[flyangel2 2]

Guy Wright is only going for 39 cents now!!!!!!!!!!!!

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[johnny1488 1]

you got change coming!!

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[flyangel2 2]

Quote

you got change coming!!

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[mark 102]

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Of course the person writing the rules for the town to adopt is a helo pilot.

So, is the helo pilot is going to hover-taxi to the end of the runway? Can you insist that he follow the new rule, too? Or is he going to write an exception for himself?

Mark

[sundevil777 93]

Quote

The correct phrase would be intersection departures, i.e. departures from where a taxiway intersects with a runway.

Certainly that situation is very common, right?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[mark 102]

Quote

Certainly that situation is very common, right?

If there's a name for it, we've seen it before.

Intersection departures are common for light aircraft using airports built for jets. For example, the usable runway at Salina, Kansas, is 13,000 feet, suitable for designation as an alternate space shuttle landing site. The tower used to (and may still) suggest to pilots who landed at one end that they might want to take off and land again near mid-field (Flower Aviation, chocolate-chip cookies) instead of taxiing that distance. Mid-field take-off? No problem, and why not, with over 6000 feet of runway in either direction.

In a fully-loaded 182 or similar, I think I'd decline an intersection departure with less than 2000 feet of runway available in the direction I wanted to go. I'd be okay with taking off from a 2000 foot runway, it's just that if there was 3000 feet available I'd just as soon taxi a little farther.

Mark

[AFFI 0]

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Guy Wright is only going for 39 cents now!!!!!!!!!!!!

I dunno how 2 wright...

[sundevil777 93]

Quote

Intersection departures are common for light aircraft using airports built for jets.

I thought it was a term describing the airport layout, not relevant to the type of aircraft using it.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[milehighpres 0]

there is nothing in the FARs that says intersection takeoffs are illegal....now it is up to the pilot to determin if it is safe or not...more to come...have to work

"the sky is not the limit....the ground is"

[pilotdave 0]

I think by "built for jets" he meant "built with long runways suitable for jets." But some airports allow intersection departures for singles, but forbid them for multi-engine planes or jets.

I really think the skydiving operation can make a case for all that additional taxiing to add risk. Assuming they do between 10 and 20 loads per day, they'd be taxiing that plane nearly 10-20 additional miles per day. And that assumes they land long and have a short taxi after landing. I almost guarantee neither the caravan or the king air was designed to taxi 20 miles per day. They may very well run into unforseen landing gear problems doing that, which could increase the risk of landing gear failure on takeoff or landing.

Is there another type of operation that might have a caravan or kingair taxiing as many as 20 miles per day?

Dave

[milehighpres 0]

everyone thinks that the person pushing this end of the runway idea is just trying to stick it to us. its seems that he is the only one with any knowlege of FAR/AIM and he is pushing his so called knowlege on the other town board members that might not know anything about airport operations...

we are the only safe and self reporting( being VFR and little local traffic, it is up to the pilot in command to report his position, but you Dont have to report it) we have ALOT of helicopter and small light aircraft traffic that cross the DZ at low levels without reporting even though our DZ is marked on the sectional. and we are the group being blamed for all aircraft noise when there is so much other non essential airtraffic around during the summer...

its not my place but has anyone ever had alot of luck with problems like this by going to the USPA.

"the sky is not the limit....the ground is"

[Programmer 0]

There aren't enough skydivers to impress local government, even if SDLI is the main buyer of jet fuel at the airport. The implied threat to take your business elsewhere might be just what the town council wants. I think you'll have more luck if you get AOPA interested in resisting the precedent set by a town council telling pilots how to operate. It complicates things that the guy pushing this is a pilot. One thing general aviation doesn't need right now is a civil war between different factions of the aviation community.
Just as a matter of interest, I jump at an airport with a 5500 foot runway using a King Air. There is also an aerial photo operation using Caravans at the same airport. A takeoff from the end of our runway equals an intersection takeoff at your runway.

[milehighpres 0]

this is a copy of my letter....let me know what your thought is on what i wrote

"the sky is not the limit....the ground is"

[pilotdave 0]

I wouldn't bother to tell them that you don't want to have to wait so long to jump... they won't care. Give them reasons why the proposed rule either decreases safety or fails to increase safety. Find out why the rule is being proposed (if there are more reasons than mentioned here) and tell them why it's not necessary or why it will have other negative consequences.

Dave