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QuoteDoes that mean we should not use any of these tools?
Absolutely not, when i was taught i was taught what the mals were and how to correct them, i was not given statistics on how many people died doing whatever as it is pointless information for a student to have. All they need to know is how to corect a problem.
Your other post about the OP having formed his own opinion on the safety level already really was my point. I think youre 100% correct.
1338
People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.
Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.
People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.
Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.
labrys 0
Quotewell. As for your opinion that I'm likely not being objective, I don't think you have enough info about me or what I'm doing to make that judgement.
I have this statement from you that shows that you are clearly not objective:
QuoteI am mere trying to educate people in my life as to the safety of skydiving. I grow tired (as I am sure you have) of the age old question of "Why would you jump out of a perfectly good airplane?". My goal is to try and get those people to go with me and take a First Jump course and jump so they can see for themselves!!
You want something (to convince your friends to jump) and you to want statistics to support your opinion that it's not dangerous. That's not an objective approach. I'm one of the group that believe that incomplete fatality statistics (or even complete ones for that matter) will not provide any useful information for someone making the decision to go make a jump.
The obective way to attempt to prove a theory would be to take an objective look at whatever data you can find and form a conclusion.
What you're doing is taking a preconceived conclusion to the data and hoping it proves your point.
The point that many other people here are trying to make is that choosing to skydive probably should not be a decision based on fatality statistics because each and every time anyone chooses to leave the airplane we accept that the dice might role up with our number on them.
People die skydiving. Whether it's 1 in a 100 jumps or 1 in a million it doesn't matter. Let your friends make their own decisions if possible. How would it feel if you made them feel okay about jumping based on statistics that might not even be applicable to them and then they were injured or killed?
Just because (making the numbers up) 5 students die each year out of 250,000 comes out to be a very low percentage doesn't mean it's safe. 5 students are dead. Statistics are numbers, dead people are real.
Owned by Remi #?
kallend 1,623
Quotethere is ONE SPECIFICALLY that I referred to with some douche bag professor."
"We see it here all the time some douche bag college professor ..."
Maybe your grammar needs brushing up by a college professor, then you wouldn't write what you didn't mean and subsequently have to make excuses.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Andy9o8 0
QuoteQuoteWe see it here all the time some douche bag college professor has his student do a report to prove how safe the sport is.
Really?
Can you provide links to a few of those requests on here where a college professor has done that? Since they occur "all the time" there must be hundreds or thousands of them for you to choose from.
I have known at least a dozen college professors who are real douchebags. Extrapolating outward, there must be hundreds of them. Maybe thousands.
kallend 1,623
QuoteQuoteQuoteWe see it here all the time some douche bag college professor has his student do a report to prove how safe the sport is.
Really?
Can you provide links to a few of those requests on here where a college professor has done that? Since they occur "all the time" there must be hundreds or thousands of them for you to choose from.
I have known at least a dozen college professors who are real douchebags. Extrapolating outward, there must be hundreds of them. Maybe thousands.
Do they all ask their students to inquire about fatality statistics on DZ.COM?
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
No offense taken Andy. I appreciate your input. I feel like there has been some misunderstanding of my intentions. I'm not out to prove anything to anybody, either online or in person. I'm just looking for info. Thanks again!!
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QuoteIm sorry if i sounded offensive, it was not directed at you. I will have a look at your articles today, thank you.
As others have said, the statistics just dont add when there are so many variables to consider. If anyone ever asks me how dangerous skydiving is i simply reply to the effect of "As soon as you go outside your comfort level or what you know then you greatly increasing your chances of injury or worse."
This is quickly moving away from a useful conversation to a waste of time. I'm sorry if you have misunderstood my intentions. I'm not trying to convince anybody to jump. If anything, it is to explain why I jump. I have no points or theories to prove. I thank you for your opinions and let's leave it at that. Here's to having many years of successful, fun jumps for both of us!! Take care.
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QuoteQuotewell. As for your opinion that I'm likely not being objective, I don't think you have enough info about me or what I'm doing to make that judgement.
I have this statement from you that shows that you are clearly not objective:QuoteI am mere trying to educate people in my life as to the safety of skydiving. I grow tired (as I am sure you have) of the age old question of "Why would you jump out of a perfectly good airplane?". My goal is to try and get those people to go with me and take a First Jump course and jump so they can see for themselves!!
You want something (to convince your friends to jump) and you to want statistics to support your opinion that it's not dangerous. That's not an objective approach. I'm one of the group that believe that incomplete fatality statistics (or even complete ones for that matter) will not provide any useful information for someone making the decision to go make a jump.
The obective way to attempt to prove a theory would be to take an objective look at whatever data you can find and form a conclusion.
What you're doing is taking a preconceived conclusion to the data and hoping it proves your point.
The point that many other people here are trying to make is that choosing to skydive probably should not be a decision based on fatality statistics because each and every time anyone chooses to leave the airplane we accept that the dice might role up with our number on them.
People die skydiving. Whether it's 1 in a 100 jumps or 1 in a million it doesn't matter. Let your friends make their own decisions if possible. How would it feel if you made them feel okay about jumping based on statistics that might not even be applicable to them and then they were injured or killed?
Just because (making the numbers up) 5 students die each year out of 250,000 comes out to be a very low percentage doesn't mean it's safe. 5 students are dead. Statistics are numbers, dead people are real.
jtval 0
QuoteMaybe your grammar needs brushing up by a college professor,
I agree with you
Quotethen you wouldn't write what you didn't mean and subsequently have to make excuses.
No excuses. Some douche college professor was at the rout eof that post...and we DO see these types (stats) of posts here all the time.
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kallend 1,623
QuoteIm sorry if i sounded offensive, it was not directed at you. I will have a look at your articles today, thank you.
As others have said, the statistics just dont add when there are so many variables to consider. If anyone ever asks me how dangerous skydiving is i simply reply to the effect of "As soon as you go outside your comfort level or what you know then you greatly increasing your chances of injury or worse."
Statistics are very useful indeed if you know what data are being presented, and don't try to read into the data things that are not there.
Just about all of epidemiology is based on statistical analysis where not all possible variables are available, and it works pretty damn well.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteThis is quickly moving away from a useful conversation to a waste of time. I'm sorry if you have misunderstood my intentions. I'm not trying to convince anybody to jump. If anything, it is to explain why I jump. I have no points or theories to prove. I thank you for your opinions and let's leave it at that. Here's to having many years of successful, fun jumps for both of us!! Take care.
If you search for skydiving versus driving, you'll find more than enough statistics to lie to your friends with. (actually, the record for students is rather good, but none of the stats out there will describe the high rate of orthopedic work done on jumpers).
Your friends must all make the choice themselves to jump out of a plane. I don't think it is a rational decision for many (most?), rather one done on feeling and desire to live a little.
As others have said, the statistics just dont add when there are so many variables to consider. If anyone ever asks me how dangerous skydiving is i simply reply to the effect of "As soon as you go outside your comfort level or what you know then you greatly increasing your chances of injury or worse."
People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.
Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.
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