Should minimum recommendations apply to you?

[cutter29 0]

Race was one of my best friends. i was with him or in the plane for most of his jumps. i was not with him in moab and sadly never got to fly a wingsuit with him.

What we know...

Race jumped a wingsuit not meeting minimum recommendations: fact

Race was alert and stable at breakoff: fact

The FAA said all of his gear was in normal working order: Fact

He suffered a medical condition in flight: we are waiting for the ME to return the blood work and issue a final report.

The wingsuit lead to his death: unknown, never will.

Following the minimum recommendations for wingsuits he would still be with us: Unknown. see above.

It is human nature to want to explore, understand and learn from things like this. I've learned a great deal about myself, my firends and the way i choose to live my life over the last 10 days. i have personally broken some of the recommendations and followed others. i have been on both sides of the fence telling someone not to jump and encouraging someone a little early. i'm not perfect but who are we kidding, neither are you. step back for a second and ask yourself if you can honestly say you have never broken a rule. maybe pulled a little low, hooked a little late or got to the ground and thought to yourself "got away with that one" i'm in no way justifying breaking the rules but instead of finding a reason to point fingers and distance yourself believing this can't happen to you step up knowing that you, i or a best friend could be next no matter what risk/ precautions we take. check yourself because it starts there and spreads. i know i have.

if you wish to mention Race in your post please stick to the facts. if you wish to post as the thread name implies have at it.

Cutter

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

>We still don't know exactly what happened in the Utah fatality. And
>we quite possibly never will.

True. But if he had followed those recommendations and not made that jump, the odds are overwhelming that he would be alive today.

.

Well, that remains to be seen. If the cause turns out to be medical, it could have happened on any jump, with or without a wingsuit.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,400]

>If the cause turns out to be medical . . .

Yes, and as I've mentioned, any incident at all can be explained away by that possibility. Historically, though, most skydiving injuries and fatalities are caused by pilot error, not by any medical issue.

So until we have a medical report, odds are that someone who didn't pull - screwed up and didn't pull.

[Andy9o8 0]

We're all very sorry for the loss of your friend. Not every fatality is contributed to by the jumper's human error, but many are, perhaps most. Not only is it natural for other jumpers to have discussions like these, it's important and necessary - including the speculation - even though some of the speculation is done with many facts still unknown or unproved. In an open online forum, people aren't going to censor themselves as though the person's loved ones are standing in the same room - and so his loved ones often take offense and feel the need to rise to his defense. Please understand that it's nothing personal, and nobody is trying to smudge your friend's memory.

[brianfry713 0]

First off, flying a wingsuit is not the same as canopy downsizing, jumping a camera, freeflying, RW big-ways, B.A.S.E. jumping, or anything else you should have x number of jumps to do.

I have around 75 wingsuit jumps with a few different suits and 2 wingsuit B.A.S.E. jumps. I was eager to try a wingsuit, but I waited until the weekend after I hit 200 skydives, all within 18 months. I traveled to see the recommended Bird Man Instructor, got the training and did a couple of jumps with him, did a few more jumps on a Classic-2 suit, and then bought a GTi and used it for most of my next 70 wingsuit jumps and my 2 WS B.A.S.E. jumps. I tried out a few other wingsuits along the way and then recently bought a Vampire.

I also did the recommended 50 B.A.S.E. jumps and 50 wingsuit skydives including a balloon wingsuit jump and a helicopter wingsuit jump before I did a wingsuit B.A.S.E. jump from a terminal cliff on a suit I was very familiar with.

My point is, that it was my decision to wait until I satisfied the recommendations before I first jumped a wingsuit. I know BMIs that will train people with slightly less than 200 skydives, but I wanted to first meet the minimum recommendations (even if I just barely meet them). In the meantime I practiced by doing lots of tracking and freeflying.

A lot of time I see people not meeting the minimum recommendations because of cost. People that just want to fly a wingsuit but don't skydive much because they can't afford it aren't likely to wait. They are also not likely to pay for formal training, or buy an entry level wingsuit. They make their choice to accept a higher risk level to save money.

I try to at least get close to the minimum recommended experience levels before I add complication to my jumps. I did add a camera helmet before the recommended C license. I'll try to wait until I have 1,000 jumps to land a cross braced canopy.

Fear is the main enforcement of recommendations. If someone isn't afraid, then they're going to keep pushing it until they are, or they get hurt or killed. Some skydivers scare easier than others. People who do other "extreme" activities may not be as afraid while skydiving as the person who is still has some fear while doing a "normal" skydive. People are normally afraid of the unknown, unless they see others doing it and receive encouragement and are confident or over-confident in their own abilities to handle it.

[billvon 2,400]

> First off, flying a wingsuit is not the same as canopy downsizing, jumping
>a camera, freeflying, RW big-ways, B.A.S.E. jumping, or anything else you
>should have x number of jumps to do.

Why do you think that?

I've heard exactly that rationale used on the other things in your list.

"Camera flying isn't any harder than doing a 2-way! I do exactly the same things, just with a camera on my head, and it's tiny. No difference!"

"Yeah, I downsized early, but I am very careful and conservative. After all, canopies all land basically the same way."

>A lot of time I see people not meeting the minimum recommendations
>because of cost. People that just want to fly a wingsuit but don't skydive
>much because they can't afford it aren't likely to wait.

Again, that's true of most of the other disciplines you listed above. Someone wants to do camera at 50 jumps so they can get someone else to pay for their jumps; otherwise they just can't afford to jump. Someone can't afford 3 canopies over the course of a year, and they see a REALLY good deal on a Katana 135. But again, we've seen the result of those sorts of decisions.

>Fear is the main enforcement of recommendations.

I hope that's not true, because that says the only way we can stop such fatalities is hard regulation. I'd prefer to think that education can be the primary weapon against such fatalities.