Hard openings on a spectre?

[millertime24 8]

Hi everyone. I had 9 jumps this weekend and packed my own rig every time. On the last jump (#9) I had the most violent opening i could imagine. The gear was a spectre 230 in a wings container. What im trying to figure out is what could I have done wrong packing this thing to make it open so unbelievably hard. Ill tell you how I pack starting from when I get to counting the nose cells. Also I packed it the same way for all the jumps and the last one was the only one that opened hard.

-Count out cells and place between knees
-Flake canopy
-Uncolapse the slider and put against stops
-Wrap tail (tag part) around lines
-Quarter slider
-Roll the tail about 9ish times
-Knees on tag of tail start squshing air out
-Make "S" fold of canopy closest to lines
-Squish more air out
-Make a mini "Psyco" roll with excess and place on top of "S" fold part
-Then just bag it up and stow the lines as usual

Any opinions on where I could be scewing this up would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

Muff #5048

[AggieDave 6]

Many hard openings can be contributed to the slider having come away from the stops during packing or stowing into the bag. Especially on a canopy that you have packed and jumped before that opens well.

Beyond that, have your rigger pack the canopy and see if it still opens badly. If that happens then you might want to have PD look at it. If you call them, by the way, they'll send you a copy of Scott Miller's packing video. Its a great learning aid and is highly recommended.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I am assuming this is a student rig. How many jump are on the canopy and line set? This could be a packing issue, it could be a worn out canopy or lines set out of trim or it could just be one of those things.

What condition was the rubber bands on the bag in? Were they loose? Were any of them broken after the jump? It could have been line dump.

[millertime24 8]

No this is actually a sport rig (basically freefly friendly and no aad). Since I rent it I cant really say exactly how many jumps are on it. Judging from how difficult (slipery) it is to pack I would say no more than 100 jumps for the entire system. It flies great and lands smooth. Its definately the way I packed it (still kinda new to packing). Rubber bands were all brand new and tight.

Muff #5048

[dragon2 0]

Also are you sure you were not opening in a (slight) track or in a head-low position?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[jakee 1,262]

Quote

Its definately the way I packed it (still kinda new to packing).

I wouldn't be too sure about that. If you were tracking or doing any freefly type stuff just before deployment you may well have been carrying some more airspeed (beginners often dive in a track). Also it may just have been a case of shit happens. I'm a bit skeptical of how much you can do as a packer to cause a slamming opening short of leaving the slider collapsed and/or half way up the lines.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[virgin-burner 1]

a stable position while deploying really is important.. somehow my instructors forgot to tell me about, they did when i complained on every jump how hard the openings were..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Butters 0]

Quote

Also are you sure you were not opening in a (slight) track or in a head-low position?

I constantly open in a (full) track and have only experienced one "hard" opening on my Spectre which was the result of deploying immediately after transitioning from head-low into a (full) track ... won't do that again.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[quade 3]

My only comment would be that it's probably NOT the canopy that's at fault here.

I have some, vague, familiarity with Spectres (about 2800 jumps on them with zero cutaways) and in my opinion they're very forgiving of very fast and sloppy pack jobs.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I would for the most part agree but I have also see people have to send them back to PD and end up with a new canopy. I had a Spectre 170 loaded about 1.4 that I put about 1000 or so jumps on. Mostly good openings but it spanked me a few times.

[millertime24 8]

Thanks guy's. After reading the comments here I came to the conclusion that I may well have been in a "legs out" position just prior to deployment. It wasnt exactly a full track because I waived then pulled, but due to breaking a little lower than normal (about 4) the brain was saying "PULL NOW OR DIE". I hate breaking that low because then if I pull at anything lower than 3500 I "hear" about it from some of the instructors.

Muff #5048

[davedlg 0]

I was having some hard openings on my spectre, in a wings container, just like the one you're jumping when I first got the rig...not every time, but from time to time it would really slam open.

I got the same advice that AggieDave posted at the beginning of the thread: make sure the slider is all the way against the stops. I did that and havent had a hard opening since.

For me, the important key was to control the slider at every step of the process: when you coccon the canopy, when you fold it, and when you put it in the bag. Push it up against the stops and hold it there every time.

I've found the canopy to open well, regardless of how sloppily I packed it, so long as I always pay attention to keeping the slider against the stops.

[bozo 0]

Ive put 1000 jumps on a Spectre 210 and agree with the folks regarding either linedump or slider positioning.
If youre confident that you bands are/were tight it may well have been your slider positon in the packing sequence.

The Spectre is the softest opening canopy I have ever owned since I gave up my Unit 3.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[NWFlyer 2]

Have someone else jump the canopy. That's one way to pinpoint the source.

In the 200 jumps I put on my Spectre, it spanked me once, when I deployed in a head-low position.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[bozo 0]

Quote

Have someone else jump the canopy. That's one way to pinpoint the source.

In the 200 jumps I put on my Spectre, it spanked me once, when I deployed in a head-low position.

Wont do that again will ya ?

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[wildfan75 1]

Quote

I hate breaking that low because then if I pull at anything lower than 3500 I "hear" about it from some of the instructors.

They can't be too strict. They are, after all, letting you, a student according to your profile, jump with a rig without an AAD.

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Quote

Have someone else jump the canopy. That's one way to pinpoint the source.

In the 200 jumps I put on my Spectre, it spanked me once, when I deployed in a head-low position.

Wont do that again will ya ?

Oh, I dunno ... the riser slaps were kind of fun. In fact, I still have the scar on the back of my right hand to remind me of how much fun I had.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[millertime24 8]

Not really a student. Just trying to finish the runway headings/ airport knowledge stuff for my A. All flying stuff/ canopy controll and maintenance has been signed off. As for jumping without an AAD thats my choice. None of the sport rigs have AAD's but all of the student ones do. Only problem is comfort of the leg straps on the student rigs or I would jump them.

Muff #5048

[wildfan75 1]

Ugh...

There really aren't degrees of being a student or a license skydiver. Either you are a student or your not a student. And if you're dz is a USPA member, all students, regardless of degree, are required to jump with an AAD (Section 2-1, K, 2-d). Until you're a fully licensed skydiver jumping at a USPA dz, unfortunately its not your choice.

Believe you me, no one better understands having to jump with uncomfortable leg straps (search my posts for "inter thigh bruise" and/or "oven mitts" and you'll see how uncomfortable our only student transition rig was for me).

I would probably not advertise (and by advertising I mean making it know for the world to see) that your dz is allowing students to jump without AADs.

Now go get your knowledge parts signed off and become a licensed skydiver. I'm sure your dz is looking forward to more beer

[Cashmanimal 0]

I have about 150 jumps on my Spectre now, and it has progressively started giving me "hard" openings. I have had a number of different people jump and pack it, all with the same result. We never really came up with a solid explanation for why, but basically just decided things were getting out of trim and it may be time for a new line set as well. (has about 400 jumps on it).

Here is a short video of one of these strange openings. The slider shoots straight down over the toggles and into my face, which was especially NOT desirable at the time because I was using a large borrowed still lens (hence the lens sticking way out in the frame... this was the first day I was using it--sorry).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0PNKPut7N0

The openings were not what I would call "soft" either. I eventually started using direct slider control, and that dramatically helped the problem and should hold me out until i send it to PD and let them do what they will with it.

and for your viewing pleasure, here is the worst opening I have ever had (knock on wood), and it was on my Spectre. You can't see in the video, but I was tracking away from the formation and had somebody else from the group ahead of us tracking underneath me. I quickly stopped my track and pulled because I saw them waving off (you can see by the hesitation in my wave-off that I wasn't sure what they were going to do, so I went with "pull now"). I didn't pull in a track, but may have still had SOME forward momentum, however I know the bag didn't hit my feet. This was a paid pack job by my rigger, and this opening resulted in a dislocated rib. Just one of those things....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp_msBRB4jQ

Luckily we broke off a little high, so this opening occurred fairly high as well with my panic pull. I am still perplexed as to why I myself got spun around so much on the opening along with the line twists....

It's all fun and until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

[darkwing 4]

As a Spectre jumper (600 on one) and a generally canopy savvy guy (I have designed and built a bunch), let me give my perspective on it.

1. ANY canopy is capable of isolated hard openings (usually called "slammers"). Even with NO packing errors. The fact that a person claims XXXX jumps with no hard ones isn't useful as a diagnostic.

2. In the absence of other information (repeated slammers, photos or inspection showing a specific issue...) there is usually no sure way to place the blame for a slammer.

3. Your opening COULD have been caused by packing error, or body position, or canopy flaw or suspension line flaw, or none of the above.

4. Don't forget you are throwing a bunch of lines and fabric out into a turbulent airstream, and shit happens.

5. Attempt to rule out the stuff that has been discussed above.

6. Keep skydiving and realize that you can do everything right and shit can happen.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[rave4funn 0]

My Spectre 210 in a wings container gave me two obnoxious openings in a row. The first one broke some lines and I had to cut it away. The first load of the next weekend a hard opening ripped the metal ring (that the steering line goes through) off of one riser and bruised up my ribs. The whole set up had maybe twenty jumps on it, and two different people packed it.

I came to the conclusion it must have been bad body position, but it still bothers me that I will never know for sure why it happened. Also, I got a little bit of "gear fear" for about a dozen jumps after that. I would be nervous as hell when it came time to deploy.

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http://www.myspace.com/rave4funn

[jimmytavino 16]

was the Pilot Chute FULLY cocked......??

and not just when you started the pack job... But after the main went into the D bag?????

if you're not checking a few times during the packing sequence... it IS possible for a P C to Uncock itself.....

and if you're not tuned into that,,, as you stow the PC into the pouch... then you could have assured yourself of "inadequate snatch force"....
come deployment time....
( nothing worse that Inadequate Snatch Force ) know what i mean?????

Your Pilot chute does a LOT more than simply popping the pin,,, during the course of an opening...
check it a few times,,,, bagging the canopy can easily un cock the p c.....then openings can be interesting,,, to say the least.
jmy

[millertime24 8]

I dont think it was the pilot chute. I always check that when A- I first cock it, B- just after securing the first 2 rubber bands to close the bag, and C- just before I close the container. Also, after first cocking it I tie an overhand knot in the bridal just at the closing pin to eunsure it doesnt become uncocked (little trick someone taught me). Then i untie it right before puting the bag in the container. It has to be either a slider or body position issue. Thanks for all the input guys and I'll try to open a bit more stable next time. And deffinately give a little more attention to detail on my pack jobs.

Muff #5048

[Booster_MPS 0]

Quote

I dont think it was the pilot chute. I always check that when A- I first cock it, B- just after securing the first 2 rubber bands to close the bag, and C- just before I close the container. Also, after first cocking it I tie an overhand knot in the bridal just at the closing pin to eunsure it doesnt become uncocked (little trick someone taught me). Then i untie it right before puting the bag in the container. It has to be either a slider or body position issue. Thanks for all the input guys and I'll try to open a bit more stable next time. And deffinately give a little more attention to detail on my pack jobs.

Putting a knot in the bridle seems like a horribly bad idea. I would suggest you run that by some other instructors/riggers/mentors. Stay safe.