Bandit jumping?

[LongWayToFall 0]

It is a dream of mine to jump from a specific airfield next to a lake, however it would be very challenging to get a dz aircraft there. So, I plan on asking local pilots if they will allow me to jump from their plane. I have heard that Cessnas with regular "car door" style doors CAN be jumped, although it takes some effort on behalf of the pilot and jumper.

Assuming I can get out of the plane, what are the laws regarding the land owner's permission? Can the pilot be punished if I jump into property without permission? If so, does the pilot need written approval from the land owner? Fairly close to the airport (several miles) is a piece of property that my family owns, however there is no place to land. Could I give him paperwork that says I can land there, but "whoops" I happened to have a bad spot and landed back at the airport or a nearby field?
The airport is uncontrolled; when you announce your intentions to jump (30min before, correct?) Do you have to do so with just the airport you are taking off from, or do you need to contact other ATCs? I'm guessing it would also depend on the jump altitude, as the higher you go the airspace changes. Can they deny you permission to jump if you have to contact an ATC that controls a much larger area?
I also know that you cannot compensate a private pilot, but he shouldn't have any problem with me "sharing" the fuel, right?
Thanks in advance for your replies, it is a life goal of mine to jump in this area and I am excited to do so.

[jsaxton 0]

Why don't you instead get some more experience and let this thread which contains incriminating evidence die for a while before you try it.

[tombuch 0]

Talk with your local S&TA about what kind of experience you should have to do this kind of jump. And talk with your drop zone pilots about how to file paperwork. If the airport is large enough and uncontrolled, then getting authorization to land there might not be such a big deal. It's always better to consider a legal jump before you plan a bandit style attempt...ya know, when a jump isn't legal, there are sometimes good reasons.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[Rover 11]

Wear Nikes - and 'Just do it'

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[LongWayToFall 0]

Incriminating evidence? Where does it say that I plan on doing anything illegal?
I am simply asking questions in a hypothetical sense, so I can gain more info on how to properly execute this jump. If you were a pilot, and somebody came to you and asked to jump out of your plane, you would probably say no. But if someone came to you and asked the same question, along with paperwork stating that you had permission to land in a certain area, and could provide reference to the necessary FARs that dictated such a jump as well as proving that the jump would be completely legal, than you would be much more willing to entertain the idea, correct?
I have spoken to the airport manager before, and although have not asked specifically about this topic, I believe that if anyone has a chance of gaining permission for a single jump, it would be me. So don't assume that I plan on illegally landing on his airport, alright????

[jsaxton 0]

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Could I give him paperwork that says I can land there, but "whoops" I happened to have a bad spot and landed back at the airport or a nearby field?

[LongWayToFall 0]

Good idea on asking my jump pilots. I guess my using the term "bandit" might have been incorrect, because you seem to indicate that it would be illegal. My plan is only to jump from an airplane that does not have paperwork for door removal (ie I will jump with the door still on) and land in an area that is not a dropzone. I was under the impression that this was a bandit jump. I will do it legally to the best of my ability.
What kind of liability does the airport owner have with allowing you to land on his property? If I was injured/killed, then he would be at risk of being sued, correct? This is the only reason I suggested using a piece of property that I could not land on, as the planned landing area, so that no liability would be had by the airport.
As far as skill on the jump, my main concern is getting out of the door without putting pressure on the pin, once I am out, the landing area is probably 200x larger than the one at my dz. If weather conditions are good, it should be an easy jump. I will certainly talk to my S&TA for more advice though

[LongWayToFall 0]

What is illegal about that? Also, what is incriminating about it as well? I never said I would do it, just entertaining the idea. If the pilot wants, he can let me out directly over the landing area that is specified. I can then fly to an area that has an easier landing, and what fault is it of his? NONE. Once I leave the plane it is up to me to land safely, if that means aborting my planned landing area and going to another, I will. See my above post about airport liability for being interested in designating the landing area as a place other than the airfield

[pilot-one 0]

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Incriminating evidence? Where does it say that I plan on doing anything illegal?
I am simply asking questions in a hypothetical sense, so I can gain more info on how to properly execute this jump. If you were a pilot, and somebody came to you and asked to jump out of your plane, you would probably say no. But if someone came to you and asked the same question, along with paperwork stating that you had permission to land in a certain area, and could provide reference to the necessary FARs that dictated such a jump as well as proving that the jump would be completely legal, than you would be much more willing to entertain the idea, correct?
I have spoken to the airport manager before, and although have not asked specifically about this topic, I believe that if anyone has a chance of gaining permission for a single jump, it would be me. So don't assume that I plan on illegally landing on his airport, alright????

I am behind you on your quest but you did title your post bandit jumping.
I think by definition bandit means illegal.

[LongWayToFall 0]

Ok I threw a question mark up there, hopefully it will alleviate some of the flames....

[Stuntbabex 0]

If you wanna jump next to a lake so bad, why not go to Elsinore? It would probably be safer. ;)

[suzyellow 0]

I say do it, you only live once.

Love Life

[hangdiver 1]

What Tom said!! Also having jumped from aircraft with doors on, C172 & luscombe. There are other things to consider like pilot proficiency, pilot knowing the proper radio frequencies, how to fly the aircraft to get the door open in flight, and for you, how to not get your gear hung-up on all the handles. Dirt dive the exit. The pilot should really have a pilot rig as well in case you end up over the tail. Also the polite thing to do is close the door as you leave. Other than that it's a piece of cake. Oh by the way, the C172 pilot had the stall warning going at rotation and the first part of the climb. I was never so happy to leave an airplane in my life! Experience is the process of making mistakes and living through them. I've made a few. Good Luck.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Why not do it right and land where you say you are going to so if you ever want the pilot to fly you again he might.

To be honest your talking around in circles about what you really want to do probably keep people from wanting to help you.

[lippy 882]

What are the regs for just taking the door off completely? When I jumped a 172 at an airshow one time we just took off the door, the wheel cover and the right seat. It only took about 5 minutes.

Is there any special permission needed for flight in this configuration?

I got nuthin

[hackish 8]

I have had offers from a friend who is a newbie pilot to take me up in a 172. I assume from my basic knowledge of aircraft that he'd have to reduce speed and possibly side-slip the aircraft so I could get the door open. I considered it, judged it too risky and subsequently stick to legal jumpcraft.

-Michael

[hangdiver 1]

You may find this helpful.
http://uspa.org/publications/SIM/2007SIM/section9AC105.2C.htm

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[lippy 882]

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You may find this helpful.
http://uspa.org/publications/SIM/2007SIM/section9AC105.2C.htm

Thanks for the link!

To the OP, why go through the hassle of messing with a conventional door in flight? It's a hassle and a hazard, so just take it off.

I got nuthin

[billvon 2,772]

>what are the laws regarding the land owner's permission?

Get a NOTAM between 1 and 24 hours before the jump. That covers you for the FAA.

Get permission of the landowner; that covers you for trespassing charges.

>Do you have to do so with just the airport you are taking off from, or
> do you need to contact other ATCs?

You muat announce on unicom. That's not a legal thing, that's just common sense. Adcitional communications will depend on what class airspace you are in.

[bjjman 0]

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Incriminating evidence? Where does it say that I plan on doing anything illegal?

You put "sharing" in quotes:

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I also know that you cannot compensate a private pilot, but he shouldn't have any problem with me "sharing" the fuel, right?

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Albert Einstein

[CSpenceFLY 1]

You are not required to have a NOTAM. Yes it's a good idea but not required.

[Blink 1]

As far as the compensation to the pilot goes, a private pilot can not be paid, but, you are aloud to pay for the fuel and aircraft rental fee because he is not profiting from those costs.

[diablopilot 2]

If your location is correct, contact Ray Ferrel at SkyDance/Action Air for some advice. He's got loads of demo experience, and a Cessna 172 with a jump door.

Some things you'll need to do:

Get the permission of the land owner. This sounds like the airport manager. If you luck out and he/she says yes, great. More than likely you'll need insurance, which at your posted skill level won't be available to you through the USPA.

You should file a NOTAM (Notice to airmen) with the FAA (through the FSDO or local ATC). Your pilot should be able to guide you through this. It covers your ass if there is some sort of airspace conflict.

Exiting an aircraft with out a jump door or without the door removed is tricky. It can be done, but not by the faint of heart, and not with a pilot that has no experience with jump operations. It's asking for BIG trouble otherwise.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Dr.Strangelove 0]

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As far as the compensation to the pilot goes, a private pilot can not be paid, but, you are aloud to pay for the fuel and aircraft rental fee because he is not profiting from those costs.

Flight hours are compensation. The private pilot must pay an equal share (pro rata) of the expenses.

[BillyVance 34]

The interesting thing is, of all the threads I've seen asking about these kinds of jumps, none of them were posted by an experienced jumper. If there was, I missed it.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban