bigway 4 #51 July 4, 2006 LOL.. I take it you are the camera man I could not imagine any of you guys doing that. Must have been hard for you watching that last night. Hope you are all good. I was joking earlier but at the same time was wondering why they never mentioned the cameraman on the dive. Even Hollow said that he saw the other 'two' parachutes and could not find the third. What about the fourth. I was not aware you guys have a camera pool for the event. Hope all is good for you mate. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Timmay 0 #52 July 4, 2006 Yeah, it was me. No worries about the joke, that's how I took it. It was a bit wierd to watch last night, but brough back some good memories of Steve (like the shot of him in the dress!) The camerapool was there because it was a collegiate competition week and we never really have enough guys there who can jump camera. I was just the bloke who got picked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #53 July 4, 2006 It was a hard story to watch at times. What a shitty day that must have been for you guys. I guess you are pretty lucky that you were kept out of the spot light with the media and the whole who dunnit thing. He seemed like a nice guy. Can't believe how that party in the dress lead to that old rumour that he was gay and was coming out so his mates killed him. I heard that in a pub a couple years back Looked like a good night. Blue skies. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #54 July 4, 2006 Are there any jumpers who actually thought it was suicide. He went through all his procedures, someone who is going to kill themselves aint going to bother with that. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian 0 #55 July 4, 2006 i always wondered if he was trying to make out it was murder so his family would still recieve the life insurance policy he would have had from being in the army, as they dont pay out for a suicide i dont think. im also sceptical about the £17,000 debt not being a factor, thats certainly not the average level of student debt for a 2nd year (im a 2nd yr and mine stands at £6,000, and it gets paid back automatically through tax when you earn over £15,000 a year), especially as he was being sponsored by the army, that means no tuition fees and you are being paid as an officer cadet in the army with a reasonable salary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Timmay 0 #56 July 4, 2006 Quote Can't believe how that party in the dress lead to that old rumour that he was gay and was coming out so his mates killed him. I heard that in a pub a couple years back Quote I honestly never heard that one! It would seem pretty wierd, especially s they were both in drag too! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #57 July 4, 2006 £17,000 of debt is not a concern at that age. Some people have mortgages that are over £100,000. Damn, what skydiver does not have that in debt? Rig, AFF and jump bill. Most people i know want to get in more debt to jump more but can not get the credit rating. Hell if i could get in a million pounds of credit to spend on jumping i would go for it in a flash. What is the worst thing that can happen to you being in debt??? Nothing, Bankruptcy so you can start again. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Yossarian 0 #58 July 4, 2006 depends who you owe the money to Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TrickyDicky 0 #59 July 4, 2006 Well, I missed it last night. Did anyone record it, wanna send me a copy? too big for skydiving movies? or does anyone know if its repeated anytime on another ITV channel? UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #60 July 4, 2006 check out torrent sites so you can download it or maybe even itv broadband. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Yossarian 0 #61 July 4, 2006 must be on itv2 or itv3 early in the morning or something, just keep checking the radio times Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bramblez 0 #62 July 5, 2006 QuoteYes he deployed his PC. Yes he did his EPs Cypres fired anyway. I don't read anything into the joke deploying of his main in a cloakroom stunt. When the police asked me what I thought of it I simply pointed out that a mate had done exactly the same thing to me in the pub a week earlier. The draft obituary the police were oh-so-worried about was hilarious by the way. Proper skydiver humor showing proper skydiver respect to a mate the way only skydivers do. I'm sure Steve would have loved it. I'm from Hereford and i'm new to these forums. Iv'e seen the programme that aired on Monday night and it's very sad. Iv'e come on here hoping soon that i'l be able to do a skydiving jump, if i'm brave enough. :) Where are you from? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #63 July 5, 2006 I am from 'The Mirror' .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bramblez 0 #64 July 5, 2006 Ok..i'm sure that's a really good occupation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #65 July 5, 2006 Just strange how your first posts are in this thread relating to a major story in the community. If you dont want to look like a reporter trying to weazle in and get information you should fill out your profile or that will be the sort of answer you can expect .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bramblez 0 #66 July 5, 2006 My first post was actully in the disability section and not in this thread. Iv'e filled out my profile now the best I can, but alot of the questions I can't answer because iv'e never skydived. I'm also no reporter for any newspaper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #67 July 5, 2006 welcome. This story is just very sensitive one. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 8 #68 July 5, 2006 Anyway... Just currious, but... Why is it Stephen's death is considered / continued to be investigated as a potential murder?? Were there signs that his gear was tampered with? Suspected motive on someone's part? Threats against his life?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,262 #69 July 5, 2006 QuoteWere there signs that his gear was tampered with? Apart from the severed main bridle and severed reserve risers? No, there was no tamperingDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 8 #70 July 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteWere there signs that his gear was tampered with? Apart from the severed main bridle and severed reserve risers? No, there was no tampering Sorry, was that in there, up-post somewhere, and I just missed it? ... my bad. Anyway, if that were the case, yep, that would do it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,262 #71 July 5, 2006 QuoteSorry, was that in there, up-post somewhere, and I just missed it? ... my bad. Anyway, if that were the case, yep, that would do it... I thought it was. I was just a bit surprised you hadn't heard about it before - the incident had massive press attention and has been discussed a lot here and in various other places.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites paraman1 0 #72 July 5, 2006 Hi all There are some surprising answers and theories here - especially the ones posted prior to the airing of the tv show I saw that both parents were willing contributors to the programme and it is very clear that they do not believe that Stephen committed suicide that day. I agree with their belief based on the information we've been given to date. Some of the earlier comments in this thread I feel were unfair, claiming that it was bad publicity for an already maligned sport! Those that want to see the worst will take the news at face value, those with any intelligence and a desire to sort the truth will look further in to the information provided. Those looking for a reason to condemn skydiving and its ardent followers don't have to look much further than many very experienced skydivers piling in, let alone the innexperienced doing so. I don't recall too many serious/death equipment failures in the UK over recent years, but the amount of seriously injured and killed skydivers who have flown themselves in to the ground is quite staggering. This in many cases by highly experienced and trained sportsmen. A death is a death, all are hopefully preventable - its really down to each and every one of us to promote the safer aspects of the sport, as many wont differentiate between someone piling in through equipment failure than someone doing so doing a last hook turn etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skykittykat 0 #73 July 5, 2006 QuoteSome of the earlier comments in this thread I feel were unfair, claiming that it was bad publicity for an already maligned sport! Those that want to see the worst will take the news at face value, those with any intelligence and a desire to sort the truth will look further in to the information provided. Unfortunately the majority of the public will only take news at face value, especially those readers of the Sun, Mirror, Star, etc. Murdoch even said he would support the Conservatives from now on and it is a well known fact that Murdoch's support through his papers can influence the outcome of a general election. Today I was interviewed by BBC Radio Oxford on doing a bikini jump, raising money for Womens' Clinics in the UK, 5 years ago. A guest of mine from Australia came up to pay rent during the interview and had to wait until I had finished. He asked what I had been interviewd on and I told him. His asked the following question: "Aren't most deaths suicide - there have been heaps of them lately?" I asked him why he thought this and he said from the media. He knew nothing about skydiving apart from what he had read in the Red Tops here in the UK. From the small inteview I did and the questions asked by my guests will put a positive aspect to skydiving rather than what is "reported". As a community, we can all contribute to raising the positive aspect of skydiving. Liz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 8 #74 July 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteSorry, was that in there, up-post somewhere, and I just missed it? ... my bad. Anyway, if that were the case, yep, that would do it... I thought it was. I was just a bit surprised you hadn't heard about it before - the incident had massive press attention and has been discussed a lot here and in various other places. Well, seeing as how the incident originally happened in the UK... back in 03... and I'm in SoCal, eh, sorry, my bad, if I had heard the details then, I had forgotten them by now. Anyway, I'm trying to think of suicides in the sport of skydiving that were either confirmed to be so (e.g. a "note" was found) or had a high degree of likelyhood that it was a suicide. I can think of two. One was at Cal City probably about 10ish years ago now when we had a first jump student basically "un-hook" (the chest strap was found undone along with one leg strap -- B12 disconnected) themselves from the harness after getting out on a static line jump and fell to their death. Post-incident investigation found that the deceased had a history of suicide attempts, had a "rug knife" in her heavy winter coat pocket, the same coat she wanted to wear on the jump, but it was too bulky to wear under the student rig (it was winter in so much as winter happens in the high desert), the assumption being she intended to use it to cut herself out of the rig and the first jump instructor recalled her asking questions along the lines of how hard it would be to get out of the harness once under canopy during FJC. Witnesses saw her fall from the harness well after getting open, so the conclusion that she unhooked herself and it wasn't opening shock was reinforced... she also took off her helmet and radio and dropped it (was the conclusion) before undoing her harness as her helmet was found well away from her body. The second was several years back at Perris when Harley committed suicide. I wasn't there, so let me caveate this with that, but the way I understand it, he got on a load and at about 3K either opened the door, told people on the airplane about a note he left somewhere, or told folks about a note and opened the door and got out... either way, he got out, didn't pull and later a note was found is what I recall hearing about the incident. So, suicides by jumpers within the sport are not unheard of. I suppose what it sounds like in this case that it wasn't a suicide would be the afore mentioned "tampering" with the gear... cut main bridle and cut reserve risers... I suppose a jumper commited on suicide might do that to one's own rig and not leave a note to make it not look like suicide, but not ever having been in that state of mind myself, nor an expert on such psychological things, I guess I'd have to say my lay opinion would be "unlikely." Hopefully they'll figure it out. I'm sure the pros at Scottland Yard are on it, but obviously having trouble. I'd suppose an avenue would be to determine who and for what reason had "motive" and then sweating them or folks around them for info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,262 #75 July 6, 2006 QuoteWell, seeing as how the incident originally happened in the UK... back in 03... and I'm in SoCal, eh, sorry, my bad, if I had heard the details then, I had forgotten them by now. Anyway, I'm trying to think of suicides in the sport of skydiving that were either confirmed to be so (e.g. a "note" was found) or had a high degree of likelyhood that it was a suicide. I can think of two. I just figured skydiving was a small world y'know? Anyway, here in the Uk we've had two definite suicides since Steven Hilders death. One was around two years ago, a guy climbed out of his harness in freefall (on camera), the second was a month or two ago, student cut his legstraps under canopy. Craziness. QuoteSo, suicides by jumpers within the sport are not unheard of. I suppose what it sounds like in this case that it wasn't a suicide would be the afore mentioned "tampering" with the gear... cut main bridle and cut reserve risers... I suppose a jumper commited on suicide might do that to one's own rig and not leave a note to make it not look like suicide, but not ever having been in that state of mind myself, nor an expert on such psychological things, I guess I'd have to say my lay opinion would be "unlikely." Hopefully they'll figure it out. I'm sure the pros at Scottland Yard are on it, but obviously having trouble. Before it happened I wouldn't have said someone would climb out of their harness on a 2-way freefly with their best mate either. I guess people intent on suicide do crazy things. Anyway, the official investigation was over some time ago, the coroners inquest recorded an open verdict.Do you want to have an ideagasm? 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bigway 4 #57 July 4, 2006 £17,000 of debt is not a concern at that age. Some people have mortgages that are over £100,000. Damn, what skydiver does not have that in debt? Rig, AFF and jump bill. Most people i know want to get in more debt to jump more but can not get the credit rating. Hell if i could get in a million pounds of credit to spend on jumping i would go for it in a flash. What is the worst thing that can happen to you being in debt??? Nothing, Bankruptcy so you can start again. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian 0 #58 July 4, 2006 depends who you owe the money to Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrickyDicky 0 #59 July 4, 2006 Well, I missed it last night. Did anyone record it, wanna send me a copy? too big for skydiving movies? or does anyone know if its repeated anytime on another ITV channel? UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #60 July 4, 2006 check out torrent sites so you can download it or maybe even itv broadband. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian 0 #61 July 4, 2006 must be on itv2 or itv3 early in the morning or something, just keep checking the radio times Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bramblez 0 #62 July 5, 2006 QuoteYes he deployed his PC. Yes he did his EPs Cypres fired anyway. I don't read anything into the joke deploying of his main in a cloakroom stunt. When the police asked me what I thought of it I simply pointed out that a mate had done exactly the same thing to me in the pub a week earlier. The draft obituary the police were oh-so-worried about was hilarious by the way. Proper skydiver humor showing proper skydiver respect to a mate the way only skydivers do. I'm sure Steve would have loved it. I'm from Hereford and i'm new to these forums. Iv'e seen the programme that aired on Monday night and it's very sad. Iv'e come on here hoping soon that i'l be able to do a skydiving jump, if i'm brave enough. :) Where are you from? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #63 July 5, 2006 I am from 'The Mirror' .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bramblez 0 #64 July 5, 2006 Ok..i'm sure that's a really good occupation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #65 July 5, 2006 Just strange how your first posts are in this thread relating to a major story in the community. If you dont want to look like a reporter trying to weazle in and get information you should fill out your profile or that will be the sort of answer you can expect .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bramblez 0 #66 July 5, 2006 My first post was actully in the disability section and not in this thread. Iv'e filled out my profile now the best I can, but alot of the questions I can't answer because iv'e never skydived. I'm also no reporter for any newspaper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #67 July 5, 2006 welcome. This story is just very sensitive one. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #68 July 5, 2006 Anyway... Just currious, but... Why is it Stephen's death is considered / continued to be investigated as a potential murder?? Were there signs that his gear was tampered with? Suspected motive on someone's part? Threats against his life?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,262 #69 July 5, 2006 QuoteWere there signs that his gear was tampered with? Apart from the severed main bridle and severed reserve risers? No, there was no tamperingDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #70 July 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteWere there signs that his gear was tampered with? Apart from the severed main bridle and severed reserve risers? No, there was no tampering Sorry, was that in there, up-post somewhere, and I just missed it? ... my bad. Anyway, if that were the case, yep, that would do it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,262 #71 July 5, 2006 QuoteSorry, was that in there, up-post somewhere, and I just missed it? ... my bad. Anyway, if that were the case, yep, that would do it... I thought it was. I was just a bit surprised you hadn't heard about it before - the incident had massive press attention and has been discussed a lot here and in various other places.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paraman1 0 #72 July 5, 2006 Hi all There are some surprising answers and theories here - especially the ones posted prior to the airing of the tv show I saw that both parents were willing contributors to the programme and it is very clear that they do not believe that Stephen committed suicide that day. I agree with their belief based on the information we've been given to date. Some of the earlier comments in this thread I feel were unfair, claiming that it was bad publicity for an already maligned sport! Those that want to see the worst will take the news at face value, those with any intelligence and a desire to sort the truth will look further in to the information provided. Those looking for a reason to condemn skydiving and its ardent followers don't have to look much further than many very experienced skydivers piling in, let alone the innexperienced doing so. I don't recall too many serious/death equipment failures in the UK over recent years, but the amount of seriously injured and killed skydivers who have flown themselves in to the ground is quite staggering. This in many cases by highly experienced and trained sportsmen. A death is a death, all are hopefully preventable - its really down to each and every one of us to promote the safer aspects of the sport, as many wont differentiate between someone piling in through equipment failure than someone doing so doing a last hook turn etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skykittykat 0 #73 July 5, 2006 QuoteSome of the earlier comments in this thread I feel were unfair, claiming that it was bad publicity for an already maligned sport! Those that want to see the worst will take the news at face value, those with any intelligence and a desire to sort the truth will look further in to the information provided. Unfortunately the majority of the public will only take news at face value, especially those readers of the Sun, Mirror, Star, etc. Murdoch even said he would support the Conservatives from now on and it is a well known fact that Murdoch's support through his papers can influence the outcome of a general election. Today I was interviewed by BBC Radio Oxford on doing a bikini jump, raising money for Womens' Clinics in the UK, 5 years ago. A guest of mine from Australia came up to pay rent during the interview and had to wait until I had finished. He asked what I had been interviewd on and I told him. His asked the following question: "Aren't most deaths suicide - there have been heaps of them lately?" I asked him why he thought this and he said from the media. He knew nothing about skydiving apart from what he had read in the Red Tops here in the UK. From the small inteview I did and the questions asked by my guests will put a positive aspect to skydiving rather than what is "reported". As a community, we can all contribute to raising the positive aspect of skydiving. Liz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #74 July 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteSorry, was that in there, up-post somewhere, and I just missed it? ... my bad. Anyway, if that were the case, yep, that would do it... I thought it was. I was just a bit surprised you hadn't heard about it before - the incident had massive press attention and has been discussed a lot here and in various other places. Well, seeing as how the incident originally happened in the UK... back in 03... and I'm in SoCal, eh, sorry, my bad, if I had heard the details then, I had forgotten them by now. Anyway, I'm trying to think of suicides in the sport of skydiving that were either confirmed to be so (e.g. a "note" was found) or had a high degree of likelyhood that it was a suicide. I can think of two. One was at Cal City probably about 10ish years ago now when we had a first jump student basically "un-hook" (the chest strap was found undone along with one leg strap -- B12 disconnected) themselves from the harness after getting out on a static line jump and fell to their death. Post-incident investigation found that the deceased had a history of suicide attempts, had a "rug knife" in her heavy winter coat pocket, the same coat she wanted to wear on the jump, but it was too bulky to wear under the student rig (it was winter in so much as winter happens in the high desert), the assumption being she intended to use it to cut herself out of the rig and the first jump instructor recalled her asking questions along the lines of how hard it would be to get out of the harness once under canopy during FJC. Witnesses saw her fall from the harness well after getting open, so the conclusion that she unhooked herself and it wasn't opening shock was reinforced... she also took off her helmet and radio and dropped it (was the conclusion) before undoing her harness as her helmet was found well away from her body. The second was several years back at Perris when Harley committed suicide. I wasn't there, so let me caveate this with that, but the way I understand it, he got on a load and at about 3K either opened the door, told people on the airplane about a note he left somewhere, or told folks about a note and opened the door and got out... either way, he got out, didn't pull and later a note was found is what I recall hearing about the incident. So, suicides by jumpers within the sport are not unheard of. I suppose what it sounds like in this case that it wasn't a suicide would be the afore mentioned "tampering" with the gear... cut main bridle and cut reserve risers... I suppose a jumper commited on suicide might do that to one's own rig and not leave a note to make it not look like suicide, but not ever having been in that state of mind myself, nor an expert on such psychological things, I guess I'd have to say my lay opinion would be "unlikely." Hopefully they'll figure it out. I'm sure the pros at Scottland Yard are on it, but obviously having trouble. I'd suppose an avenue would be to determine who and for what reason had "motive" and then sweating them or folks around them for info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,262 #75 July 6, 2006 QuoteWell, seeing as how the incident originally happened in the UK... back in 03... and I'm in SoCal, eh, sorry, my bad, if I had heard the details then, I had forgotten them by now. Anyway, I'm trying to think of suicides in the sport of skydiving that were either confirmed to be so (e.g. a "note" was found) or had a high degree of likelyhood that it was a suicide. I can think of two. I just figured skydiving was a small world y'know? Anyway, here in the Uk we've had two definite suicides since Steven Hilders death. One was around two years ago, a guy climbed out of his harness in freefall (on camera), the second was a month or two ago, student cut his legstraps under canopy. Craziness. QuoteSo, suicides by jumpers within the sport are not unheard of. I suppose what it sounds like in this case that it wasn't a suicide would be the afore mentioned "tampering" with the gear... cut main bridle and cut reserve risers... I suppose a jumper commited on suicide might do that to one's own rig and not leave a note to make it not look like suicide, but not ever having been in that state of mind myself, nor an expert on such psychological things, I guess I'd have to say my lay opinion would be "unlikely." Hopefully they'll figure it out. I'm sure the pros at Scottland Yard are on it, but obviously having trouble. Before it happened I wouldn't have said someone would climb out of their harness on a 2-way freefly with their best mate either. I guess people intent on suicide do crazy things. Anyway, the official investigation was over some time ago, the coroners inquest recorded an open verdict.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
