Kdsosso 0
QuoteWell, I had my first malfuction on Saturday
. Not fun and yes I packed for myself that day
.
What I learned? I love my rigger, Pete Swan, who packed the reserve that saved my life
and a huge thank you to Ed Pawlowski, worlds best instructor, who beat into my head to practice my emergency procedures everyday before I get into the plane and before I leave the plane. Had I not followed his instruction, I would not be here today.
LESSON: PRACTICE YOUR EMERGENCY PROCEDURES EVERYDAY!
and again big thanks to Pete and Ed!
1) Glad you rembered your EP's and are still with us.
2) Yes Ed is an AWESOME instructor!! He taught me as well and I review my EP at least 4 times before every jump and I touch my handles in order numerous times. It is obvious that his instructional technique ingrains this in us.
3) Hehe, don't forget a bottle for rigger Pete
Phil
Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked
Scrumpot 1
Glad to hear it reinforced, how continued training and practice ingrains "muscle memory" to assure uniform EP's. Also interesting how you as a result apparently went through your "in-plane drill" motions in order to effectuate them in real time. What I mean by that, and if I read your description correctly, you had already deployed your main, experienced your unrecoverable spinning mal, yet for movement #1 (to "start" your EP's) reached back & re-"simulated" your initial pitch? VERY INTERESTING!
I'm wondering now (if my assessment is correct) a few things:
1. How you feel about that in calm retrospect, relative to time spent and future (training/retraining) considerations? ...Do you think that perhaps getting your mind "locked in" as a result of repeatedly thinking of (and practicing) your EP's in this fashion, so that a "repeated" main PC reach as "EP action #1" is necessarily a good thing, or rather any reason for potential concern at all?
2. You were spinning on your back? ...Do you mind stating whether or not you jump an RSL in your gear, and giving us just a bit more detail as to the resultant (smooth/stable? ...line twists or not?) reserve deployment?
3. Also wondering what your "altitude awareness" situation may have been during all of this?
Glad to hear how well things turned out for you, and THANK YOU for posting your story! GOOD ON YOU also for deciding to take action, and NOT "fighting" to as one buddy of mine refers to (and I still see way too many jumpers attempt none-the-less, unfortunately, to either their demise or injury) "rigging in the air". You've SAVED YOURSELF, and that is every bit as important to hear about in these forums IMHO as so many other failures!
Thank you in advance for expanding upon this even further with my questions now, if you don't mind too.
Blue Skies,
-Grant
I'm wondering now (if my assessment is correct) a few things:
1. How you feel about that in calm retrospect, relative to time spent and future (training/retraining) considerations? ...Do you think that perhaps getting your mind "locked in" as a result of repeatedly thinking of (and practicing) your EP's in this fashion, so that a "repeated" main PC reach as "EP action #1" is necessarily a good thing, or rather any reason for potential concern at all?
2. You were spinning on your back? ...Do you mind stating whether or not you jump an RSL in your gear, and giving us just a bit more detail as to the resultant (smooth/stable? ...line twists or not?) reserve deployment?
3. Also wondering what your "altitude awareness" situation may have been during all of this?
Glad to hear how well things turned out for you, and THANK YOU for posting your story! GOOD ON YOU also for deciding to take action, and NOT "fighting" to as one buddy of mine refers to (and I still see way too many jumpers attempt none-the-less, unfortunately, to either their demise or injury) "rigging in the air". You've SAVED YOURSELF, and that is every bit as important to hear about in these forums IMHO as so many other failures!
Thank you in advance for expanding upon this even further with my questions now, if you don't mind too.
Blue Skies,
-Grant
coitus non circum - Moab Stone
The111 0
QuoteQuoteI was sooo thankful to have a beautiful canopy over my head, until I couldn't release my reserve left toggle, so adrenaline kicked in and I ripped it down along with the velcro and landed safely.
Yep, did that too. The 2nd ride I had I remembered to peel the velcro before releasing the toggles
Hmm. I don't really remember exactly how the toggles were attached or how I unattached them on my 2 reserve rides, I just remember they looked slightly different than main toggles, but were still recognizable as big yellow loops, so I grabbed them and pulled. Was I supposed to do it a certain way? It seemed to work fine...
www.WingsuitPhotos.com
QuoteWas I supposed to do it a certain way?
Some reserve risers have larger velcro covering the entire toggle and stowed steering line, not just the small amount used to stow the extra steering line.
I always suggest you should take an extra few seconds (if altitude allows) to peel the velcro back and unstow the toggles at the same time so you don't have any problems, after all this is your last canopy to land safely with.
Be safe.
Ed
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
Quoteso I grabbed them and pulled. Was I supposed to do it a certain way? It seemed to work fine...
The first time I had a reserve ride I did the same thing but the velco was so strong (brand new and lots of it) that the left brake didn't fire. Of course that then started a turn which I had to stop with the other toggle while I worked out the unreleased toggle issue.
Basically I just made my life harder than it needed to be at that time
Performance Designs Factory Team
Kdsosso 0
1. How you feel about that in calm retrospect, relative to time spent and future (training/retraining) considerations? ...Do you think that perhaps getting your mind "locked in" as a result of repeatedly thinking of (and practicing) your EP's in this fashion, so that a "repeated" main PC reach as "EP action #1" is necessarily a good thing, or rather any reason for potential concern at all?
____________________________________
To be honest, my canopy spinning distracted me from my emergency procedures to where my mind went blank for a second. It was "muscle memory" that made me pull my reserve. I think next time (hopefully that won't be for a while) I won't be as panicked and will know what to expect and react a bit faster and go right for handle #2.
-----------------------------------------------
2. You were spinning on your back? ...Do you mind stating whether or not you jump an RSL in your gear, and giving us just a bit more detail as to the resultant (smooth/stable? ...line twists or not?) reserve deployment?
_______________________________________
Yes, I do jump with an RSL and I know it is a serious choice whether to continue using it and when. After pulling #2 handle I felt the rings release, then a second of freefall, then my reserve seemed to pop out, with a turn to it, but I managed to grab those risers and straighten it out before it went into complete line twist. I managed to get stable without any delay, so I think that may have helped the deployment.
----------------------------------------------
3. Also wondering what your "altitude awareness" situation may have been during all of this?
_______________________________________
I am embarrassed to say, my "altitude awareness" I wish had been better. I know I tracked away from the formation at 4K, I know I pulled at roughly 3K, after that everything was a blurr and a fight....but I know I was under my reserve at around 1900.
I am just thankful that I was very lucky, and walked away learning, to never hesitate, asses quickly and react quickly.
Hope that answered your questions
Kristin
____________________________________
To be honest, my canopy spinning distracted me from my emergency procedures to where my mind went blank for a second. It was "muscle memory" that made me pull my reserve. I think next time (hopefully that won't be for a while) I won't be as panicked and will know what to expect and react a bit faster and go right for handle #2.
-----------------------------------------------
2. You were spinning on your back? ...Do you mind stating whether or not you jump an RSL in your gear, and giving us just a bit more detail as to the resultant (smooth/stable? ...line twists or not?) reserve deployment?
_______________________________________
Yes, I do jump with an RSL and I know it is a serious choice whether to continue using it and when. After pulling #2 handle I felt the rings release, then a second of freefall, then my reserve seemed to pop out, with a turn to it, but I managed to grab those risers and straighten it out before it went into complete line twist. I managed to get stable without any delay, so I think that may have helped the deployment.
----------------------------------------------
3. Also wondering what your "altitude awareness" situation may have been during all of this?
_______________________________________
I am embarrassed to say, my "altitude awareness" I wish had been better. I know I tracked away from the formation at 4K, I know I pulled at roughly 3K, after that everything was a blurr and a fight....but I know I was under my reserve at around 1900.
I am just thankful that I was very lucky, and walked away learning, to never hesitate, asses quickly and react quickly.
Hope that answered your questions
Kristin
Kdsosso 0
I couldn't forget Pete.....I brought him several bottles...lol... 24 of them in fact. I heard he shares.....
.....I brought him several bottles...lol... 24 of them in fact. I heard he shares.....
Scrumpot 1
QuoteHope that answered your questions
Yes, pretty much, and THANK YOU again!
QuoteTo be honest, my canopy spinning distracted me from my emergency procedures to where my mind went blank for a second. It was "muscle memory" that made me pull my reserve. I think next time (hopefully that won't be for a while) I won't be as panicked and will know what to expect and react a bit faster and go right for handle #2.
Exactly what I was looking for, and thank you for clarifying that. It sounded like this was the case, and I was wondering about it. Don't worry, not to "pick on you" or find fault in anything you did, trust me. More out of personal curiosity at this point brought on by something I've been observing of late, and wondering if it is something of a new "phenomenon" or not. Your reply, although not conclusive or "all inclusive" gives me some indication that it just may be. Maybe I will start a poll on EP drills to see what kind of preponderence of responses I get.
What I have seen, and what I am alluding to, is (and this is what I am guessing that you do too ...please feel free to either correct me if I'm wrong or add anything further ...again, I promise I will NOT "flame" you or pick on you in ANY way. It is I who is trying to learn something here & I sincerely APPRECIATE your input!) jumpers on jumprun, "practicing their EP's", and what I see is maybe 4-5 rapid repeats of:
1. Motion to toss main ...IMMEDIATELY followed by:
2. Motion of cutting away
3. Motion of pulling reserve
and repeated 1,2,3 just like that in rapid succession. Now apparently, for you, and in this situation this EFFECTIVELY "kick-started" your mind and your EP's and that is good. However, we have seen some discussion on these boards over the years (and even some disagreement
) about how much time might be potentially "wasted" by even just a cut-away in some certain high-speed malfunctions. So I'm wondering how, expanding upon that to this, and for learning/consideration purposes you might feel, and/or whether you think you might have, under those circumstances (a PC in tow situation for instance ...WITHOUT arguing any point if it actually even is better to chop from that or not for now) would have done the exact same thing? 1...
2...
3... ???
QuoteYes, I do jump with an RSL and I know it is a serious choice whether to continue using it and when.
Actually, I was looking less for you to have been "concerned" over the RSL, as to have heard more of a testamonial if you will, or to have been able to use you as an example of how this (excessive fear of "bad body position" on reserve deployment) relative to RSL considerations probably should NOT be a concern. What I have also now taken away from your response too is however, (double-bonus! ...THANK YOU!
) your awareness of that deployment, and also how calmly at that point you seemed to hanlde it. Again, GOOD ON YOU! QuoteI am just thankful that I was very lucky, and walked away learning, to never hesitate, asses quickly and react quickly.
Ditto. Never quit LEARNING! Which is what I am now also, resultant of your situation, also striving to do. Thank you for your clarifications.
Did anybody else see what I am talking about and referring to with the 1st part of this (albeit now quite long, for which I aslo apologize
) post, and care to perhaps discuss/explore this (my concern/indication of a potential "phenomenon" here) a little more? Is this something that we should have as a concern? Maybe this is something to take to the instructors forum too for some consideration? ...Or maybe it is all "nothing at all" either too? Thanks again Kristin for your interaction, your willingness to post, and your willingness to SHARE!
Blue Skies,
-Grant
coitus non circum - Moab Stone
Kdsosso 0
about how much time might be potentially "wasted" by even just a cut-away in some certain high-speed malfunctions. So I'm wondering how, expanding upon that to this, and for learning/consideration purposes you might feel, and/or whether you think you might have, under those circumstances (a PC in tow situation for instance ...WITHOUT arguing any point if it actually even is better to chop from that or not for now) would have done the exact same thing?
1...
2...
3... ???
_________________________________________
I feel that if I have any type of malfunction- moving forward, that my reaction time will be faster, and will probably not reach for #1 and go straight for #2 next time. I think my reaction will be different depending on the type of malfunction. I'm not sure I can answer that question intelligently yet
-----------------------------------
example of how this (excessive fear of "bad body position" on reserve deployment) relative to RSL considerations probably should NOT be a concern.
______________________________
I really don't have any fear of bad body position, I knew I needed a canopy over my head and took care of that...never a consideration with my RSL..always pull #2 and #3 (however, in my case I had my hand on #3 and felt my reserve release, so I didn't pull handle #3).
-------------------------------------
Thanks for your questions and your PM
Kristin
1...
2...
3... ???
_________________________________________
I feel that if I have any type of malfunction- moving forward, that my reaction time will be faster, and will probably not reach for #1 and go straight for #2 next time. I think my reaction will be different depending on the type of malfunction. I'm not sure I can answer that question intelligently yet
-----------------------------------
example of how this (excessive fear of "bad body position" on reserve deployment) relative to RSL considerations probably should NOT be a concern.
______________________________
I really don't have any fear of bad body position, I knew I needed a canopy over my head and took care of that.
..never a consideration with my RSL..always pull #2 and #3 (however, in my case I had my hand on #3 and felt my reserve release, so I didn't pull handle #3). -------------------------------------
Thanks for your questions and your PM
Kristin
jsaxton 0
Another lesson:
Use a packer, that way you have someone to blame
Use a packer, that way you have someone to blame
Scrumpot 1
Quotehowever, in my case I had my hand on #3 and felt my reserve release, so I didn't pull handle #3...
OOPS! ...Bad Ju-Ju! Maybe I will now jump on you here, just a little bit.
...Please, even if you THINK your RSL has pulled ...Pull ALL your handles for YOURSELF anyway!! Everything you do in this sport becomes habit, and THAT is indeed a BAD habit to get into. If you have an RSL in your rig in the 1st place, I can next to guarantee you that it will "beat you". You should STILL PULL that silver handle, RAGARDLESS! Next time you may not have an RSL, or it could fail, or what-have-you. Seriously. I would be concerned at this point that you have still NOT "proven" that you can completely (and correctly) execute your EP's ...because even in this case now, you have NOT.
Kristin, please get back in the hanging harness, and work this through some more, talk with a mentor or instructor, THINK about it, then RE-PRACTICE it. I'm sorry, but this statement here in your case has just concerned me and set off "alarm bells" that I do now think you will need to address.
coitus non circum - Moab Stone
QuoteQuotehowever, in my case I had my hand on #3 and felt my reserve release, so I didn't pull handle #3...
OOPS! ...Bad Ju-Ju! Maybe I will now jump on you here, just a little bit.
If you have an RSL in your rig in the 1st place, I can next to guarantee you that it will "beat you". You should STILL PULL that silver handle, RAGARDLESS! Next time you may not have an RSL, or it could fail, or what-have-you. Seriously. I would be concerned at this point that you have still NOT "proven" that you can completely (and correctly) execute your EP's ...because even in this case now, you have NOT.
Kristin, please get back in the hanging harness, and work this through some more, talk with a mentor or instructor, THINK about it, then RE-PRACTICE it. I'm sorry, but this statement here in your case has just concerned me and set off "alarm bells" that I do now think you will need to address.
Don't worry Grant, I have spoken to her about it and she completely understands what she should have done.
I think being it was her first reserve ride, she was alittle slow getting to her reserve handle after pulling her cutaway, thus she already had a reserve over her head, and being the smart girl she is, saw no sense in pulling it out of the pocket.
I'm thoughly convinced that should she have another malfuction, she'll be ready to take the correct actions and BOTH of the handles will be no where in site!
Be safe.
Ed
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
Kdsosso 0
OOPS! ...Bad Ju-Ju! Maybe I will now jump on you here, just a little bit. ...Please, even if you THINK your RSL has pulled ...Pull ALL your handles for YOURSELF anyway!! Everything you do in this sport becomes habit, and THAT is indeed a BAD habit to get into.
________________________________
I completely agree! I was just stating what actually happened, however I am fully aware that I should have pulled #3 NO MATTER WHAT..
Actually, that's the first thing Ed said to me when I landed
..well, not the first thing, but one of many.
I believe that is what this forum is for....learning from others mistakes and how they would do it differently.
Thanks for the advice and concern, but Ed beat you to it...lol
________________________________
I completely agree! I was just stating what actually happened, however I am fully aware that I should have pulled #3 NO MATTER WHAT..
Actually, that's the first thing Ed said to me when I landed
..well, not the first thing, but one of many. I believe that is what this forum is for....learning from others mistakes and how they would do it differently.
Thanks for the advice and concern, but Ed beat you to it...lol
Scrumpot 1
Okay, cool! Thanks Ed, for letting us know. As usual, and as should always be stipulated ...to check with YOUR instructors, and/or mentors who know you, and know 1st hand the entire situation. As it is always nearly impossible to tell just from the "cold, impersonal" internet. Glad to see that is also precisely what has happened here, and again that if her willingness to post all this up and share has also helped others, well then again: GOOD ON HER!
Thanks again for the clarification(s).
Blue Skies,
-Grant
Glad to see that is also precisely what has happened here, and again that if her willingness to post all this up and share has also helped others, well then again: GOOD ON HER! Thanks again for the clarification(s).
Blue Skies,
-Grant
coitus non circum - Moab Stone
tbrown 26
Glad to hear that. Following somebody's cutaway down and retrieving it really IS a gallant and considerate thing to do!
Followed your later posts about the time and altitude, if you tossed your pilot chute around 3 grand, went through this whole drama and were sitting under an open reserve at or above 1900 ft, I'd say you did an outstanding job! You have every right to feel you can hhandle the situation with confidence, should it ever happen again. Well done!
Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !
Followed your later posts about the time and altitude, if you tossed your pilot chute around 3 grand, went through this whole drama and were sitting under an open reserve at or above 1900 ft, I'd say you did an outstanding job! You have every right to feel you can hhandle the situation with confidence, should it ever happen again. Well done!
Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !
Kristin
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