Tracking

[mrbiceps 0]

So i have been doing a fair bit of tracking lately and have the problem of sinking too low on big way tracking jumps which ticks me off big time. Seeing them up there having fun and im down here on my flamin own. I ask the others for some advice and they explain to me the correct tracking position and roll your shoulders and get big and blah blah blah. I appreciate their input and have tried all the advice that i have been given over the past but from memory the only person to actually critique my track has been my b rel instructor who told me that i go like and rocket when i track and he says i have a very good track.
My theory is the weight thing again and that no matter how good at tracking i am or will be in the future i will never be able to track at the same glide ratio as another jumper who is my height but 20 kgs lighter.
On the weekend i did a little test on a 3 way track with 2 other jumpers that are good trackers. i sunk low again and i normally get the shits and just end the track and do a sit or something like that. So i dont cause a problem with the other group by having someone else in their airspace but lower than they are expecting anyone else to be.
As i went low i just tracked the best i could for the entire jump just to see if i could keep with the others even though i was scott malone on my own a fair bit lower than them. When i hit around 6k i flipped over and saw that i had actually past them and was a fair distance in front of them. I then peeled off while i was watching them to get away from them. So i must be doing something right if i covered more ground than the others.
I am in the process of getting a big guys suit to slow me down a bit, so maybe this will help.
So what do you guys think? Am i missing something here?
If you have 2 guys with 10000 jumps who are both excellent trackers and both 6 foot high. One weighs 90 kgs and one weighs 70kgs. If they both do their best track, surely the heavier guy will always have a glide angle that is steeper than the lighter guy?
Or is it that i am just a shit tracker and should stay home ??.

[Remster 24]

All other things being equal, of course the lighter guy will track flatter. That being said, track jumps are normally not very flat, and are closer to deltas (the ones I've been on anyways)

How do you start the track?

Remster

[fasted3 0]

Size matters.As you noticed, you need to track hard to get a good glide, but that is too fast for the lighter guys; if you slow down, you turn into a brick.
The good news is that you can cheat. Just like the heavyweights can use bigger wingsuits to stay with lighter fliers, you can flock with the trackers by changing your outfit. Tracking pants would give you the range to fly with your buds I bet. A whole tracking suit works even better, and it's good wingsuit training if you're headed that way.
If not, you still could do some good with more material, I think.

But what do I know?

[JohnDeere 0]

First if your not in the group or close by 6-7k you should stop of turn around and track back depending on groups before and after you and the way you tracked (down jump run or off jump run).

The thing I see most people do that kills there fall rate is there legs. When you are tracking think about pushing your legs down more. Think about laying on the ground flat. Now put pressure on your legs and upper body to raise your hips.

Another thing to think about is exit order. Poeple woking on there tracking should be 1st or 2nd divers. The problem with being in the door is on exit loosing air and falling out from the exit. These are also thing I had problems with and worked out.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[FourSideDean 0]

I did a tracking dive with a guy who must weigh at least 50 lbs more than me but he was able to track like no one else... I sunk out and he flew away...

He has a nice suit made by Bev and he got "after burners" on the legs... They are kind of pockets that catch air and push you forward.

I advise getting a good suit.

[peek 20]

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So i have been doing a fair bit of tracking lately and have the problem of sinking too low on big way tracking jumps which ticks me off big time.

First of all, ask the folks you are jumping with what the purpose of the skydive is. Make sure their attitude is not just to track like hell and see how far they can go, leaving you behind.

If they want everyone to fall relative to each other then everyone simply needs to wear a jumpsuit that works. A suit that works for regular RW (in a relaxed body position) without going low is a good start, but if you are going low all the time you probably need more. You can only change your body position so much.

Or, see if you can go "base" (lead the pack). Being the leader on your back is even more fun because you can see everyone else if they are in position.

[davelepka 4]

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Seeing them up there having fun and im down here on my flamin own

That's a huge part of the problem. If you're looking up, chances are you'll never get there. You give up too much in the way of body position when you look up to ever recover.

Rolling your shoulders, and pushing your legs down is all in an effort to make a big curve out of your body, so you cup air, and shoot it down your legs (for the most part). If you're looking up, you blow the whole effect.

Here's a good approach - leave the plane 2 seconds after the base. Regardless of the group size, make sure you exit at that time. You'll get out and be high on the base, and you want to stay there. Keeping that height, track out 10 feet ahead of the base, and only then slowly lower yourself down toward the group, but try to stay 5 ft up from the base.

By doing this, you force yourself to look down and slightly back to see the base, which allows you to use your head and shoulders to full effect when cupping air.

It takes practice, and once you have the hang of it, you can get on level with the base, but until then plan to stay just above and keep your advantage.

Another good point is to ask what type of tracking dive it's going to be. If it is a super flat, super high speed jump, maybe take a pass. If it's a more moderate speed and angle, then that's the one you'll be able to stay with and learn something.

Be sure to try different suits as well. Different things work better for different people. Bigger guys usually benefit from some extra material, or booties if you have an RW suit.

[FourSideDean 0]

I agree.

I have noticed when someone passes the formation they have a hard time getting back up. But if they start above and slowly come down they get right in the pocket.

[Stuntbabex 0]

get a wingsuit.

[kallend 1,635]

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All other things being equal, of course the lighter guy will track flatter. That being said, track jumps are normally not very flat, and are closer to deltas (the ones I've been on anyways)

All other things being equal, the guy who practices more will track flatter.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Remster 24]

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All other things being equal, of course the lighter guy will track flatter. That being said, track jumps are normally not very flat, and are closer to deltas (the ones I've been on anyways)

All other things being equal, the guy who practices more will track flatter.

True. But all other things are not equal.

Remster

[kallend 1,635]

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All other things being equal, of course the lighter guy will track flatter. That being said, track jumps are normally not very flat, and are closer to deltas (the ones I've been on anyways)

All other things being equal, the guy who practices more will track flatter.

True. But all other things are not equal.

I've seen some pretty heavy guys do a really good job of tracking. Claiming body type as an excuse is a cop-out.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Remster 24]

And saying it doesn't affect result is ignoring physics.

Remster

[Ironmanjay 0]

You know i used to have the same problem too. I dont know if you have gotten video of yourself tracking. Sometimes it 'feels' like your doing one thing when actually your not emphasizing it enough, so before you go and buy a new suit, which could help you, I would get someone to video you. Its a lot cheaper then a suit and Id bet money your going to learn something about your body position

[rivetgeek 0]

Ok maybe someone can explain to me why skydivers seem to think weight has anything at all to do with fall rate? Surface area, sure due to wind resistance, but all objects fall at 32ft/s^2 in near earth gravity, regardless of weight.

~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~

[kj126 0]

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Ok maybe someone can explain to me why skydivers seem to think weight has anything at all to do with fall rate? Surface area, sure due to wind resistance, but all objects fall at 32ft/s^2 in near earth gravity, regardless of weight.

Consider the falling motion of two skydivers: one with a mass of 100 kg (skydiver plus parachute) and the other with a mass of 150 kg (skydiver plus parachute).

the amount of air resistance depends upon the speed of the object. A falling object will continue to accelerate to higher speeds until they encounter an amount of air resistance which is equal to their weight. Since the 150-kg skydiver weighs more (experiences a greater force of gravity), it will accelerate to higher speeds before reaching a terminal velocity. Thus, more massive objects fall faster than less massive objects because they are acted upon by a larger force of gravity; for this reason, they accelerate to higher speeds until the air resistance force equals the gravity force.

I Am Sofa King We Todd Did!!

[rivetgeek 0]

Hrm its been far too long since i took fluid dynamics in college. I was confusing gravitational acceleration with terminal velocity. I stand corrected.

Guess it's time to go on a diet ;P

~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

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Ok maybe someone can explain to me why skydivers seem to think weight has anything at all to do with fall rate? Surface area, sure due to wind resistance, but all objects fall at 32ft/s^2 in near earth gravity, regardless of weight.

Ok, Newton. 32ft/s^2 is before reaching terminal velocity. You must be thinking of a vacuum, no? Weight = Penetrating Force: the more force, the faster you will fall, especially with equal surface area.

[kallend 1,635]

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Ok maybe someone can explain to me why skydivers seem to think weight has anything at all to do with fall rate? Surface area, sure due to wind resistance, but all objects fall at 32ft/s^2 in near earth gravity, regardless of weight.

Recreational physicist, eh?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[timbre 0]

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Ok maybe someone can explain to me why skydivers seem to think weight has anything at all to do with fall rate? Surface area, sure due to wind resistance, but all objects fall at 32ft/s^2 in near earth gravity, regardless of weight.

Objects ACCELERATE at 32ft/ss in a vacuum - their terminal fall rate is dictated by their air resistance. As in, they will keep accelerating until their air resistance matches gravity.

Terminal velocity is proportional to mass/surface area. (IE when Fgravity = F-air you stop accelerating....F-gravity = 32*Mass, F-air is roughly surface_area * Velocity^2, solve that and you get V = sqrt(mass/surface * 32), IE proportional to mass/surface)

Surface area is proportional to the ^2 (side*side)

Mass is proportional to volume ie ^3 (side*side*side)

So imagine two people, represented by cubes. One weighs "1" and the other weighs "8" (just to make the arithmetic easier)
- A cube with mass "1" has sides of 1, and a surface area of 1....so the mass/surface = 1
- A cube with mass "8" has sides of 2, so mass/surface = 4, ie it will fall much faster than the other (twice as fast?)

Since the volume increases mathematically faster than the surface (^3 vs ^2) you can generalize that heavier people have less surface area / weight, and therefore they fall faster.

Note that the whole surface area / volume scaling issue is why "small" things are so different than "big" things -- it's why large animals don't lose heat as quickly - they have less surface for their bulk - and why it's more efficient for puppies to "pile" (because they have less surface to lose heat vs their mass)...it's why very small animals are so strong for their size (ants routinely pick up many many times more than their own weight), etc etc etc.

[Ironmanjay 0]

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Ok maybe someone can explain to me why skydivers seem to think weight has anything at all to do with fall rate? Surface area, sure due to wind resistance, but all objects fall at 32ft/s^2 in near earth gravity, regardless of weight.

Jump more and talk less on the forums and you'll run across our reasoning of why we know that a persons body composition makes a difference in their fall rate

[Kami-kaze 0]

yeah, go jump more.
I'm 58 kg and I used to jump with a guy who is 100 kg.
If we can jump together on our belly and track together ....